Behind the Mic: Unveiling the Art of Masterful Collaboration with Special Guest, Podcast Producer Gogo Zoger

Speaker 1 Welcome back to the world's first super rad listening school, masterful listeners. We're gonna have a super rad episode because I have a very special guest. She's actually my podcast producer, Gogo Zoger. We're gonna dive into a super interesting conversation that goes back and looks back at how did we get this podcast up and running and successful in just a few months. So this is for anyone who has ever had a creative idea, a vision, but hasn't quite brought it to life yet. I think this will help you. And also, I want to acknowledge one quick thing before we dive in. You'll see when you listen masterfully

Speaker 1 that we talk a lot about what are some of the key components of making sure that your creative work, like this podcast, is really the best it can be, including the sound, you know, the tech involved. It's tricky. There's a lot going on. And what I found kind of ironic was that when I listened back to the episode, even though I was more concerned about the second mic that Gogo was speaking into, when I listened, I thought, oh my god, she sounds way clearer than I do. And I thought, well, what do we do? Do I publish an episode where I'm not a hundred percent happy

Speaker 1 with how I sound? And it made me think about perfectionism and how often me as a recovering perfectionist, how often that's led me to not publish content or put my art, my love, the things I care about into the world because they weren't perfect. And so, you know what I decided to do? I decided to post it anyway, because it's definitely good enough. You'll hear me, but notice what is it like to hear two people speaking? And maybe the sound quality is just a bit

Speaker 1 well, let's say it's not perfect. Maybe you won't even notice, maybe I shouldn't have called it out. But there's something about taking the time to masterfully listen to yourself, to the work that you do, and then make a choice. Do I want the fact that I don't think it's perfect to stop me from sharing? Or do I want to go ahead and move forward and push myself? Do you want to push yourself to start really sharing more with the world, even if the quality could be even better? You know what I mean? So, yeah, tune into that question as we dive into this episode. Welcome back

Speaker 1 to school.

Speaker 2 Thank you. It is an honor to be here.

Speaker 1 How does it feel to know that without you, this podcast would not exist?

Speaker 2 Well, to be honest, it makes me very happy. I love bringing your creative ideas to life and helping you refine them in the ways I know best. It's it's what I love to do, honestly.

Speaker 1 I love that you said that refine them, because that's really, I feel like what you do very well. I mean, you do, she does a lot of things well. Uh, so masterful listeners, welcome back. I think this is 28. Honestly, who cares? Although a data fact that Gogo you did tell me, which is really fascinating and inspiring, was that only 20% of podcasts that get started go beyond 10 episodes.

Speaker 2 That's correct.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, what do you make of that?

Speaker 2 Uh, that means we're winning, right?

Speaker 1 We're winning. We're winning because we're even doing it. I mean to do what you say you're gonna do, and that's a big theme of what this episode is about. Uh for the listener. And so, by the way, welcome back to Masterful Listening. Uh, today's a very special one. So I'm gonna keep the flow of the show the way it always is. So, by the way, if you've been listening, thank you. You're so awesome. If you haven't, welcome. What a great episode to jump in on as well. Uh, I'm gonna give it a little intro. I'm gonna give a little intro of kind of the context of

Speaker 1 how Go Go and I met, because as you know, this is the world's super rad first ever listening school that you actually really want to go to. So there will be so many lessons, specifically in this episode. So before I even give my normal story context, I want to invite the listener already to listen a certain way. Because the lens I love that.

Speaker 2 Well, I was gonna say, if you are watching as well and you're enjoying watching, let Svelana know. We want to know if you like watching, right?

Speaker 1 Because I haven't been doing tons, I've recorded every episode. Yeah, I just haven't posted much of it. That's sort of part of continuing to expand. But I love if anyone knows me, they know I've made a lot of videos. This is selfie queen. This is like a video selfie, but yeah, we got a cool setup. Let us know what you think. It's different than my other one. If you've seen it's not as busy, but it's like orange velvet, which if I was a fabric, yeah, probably I would be this fabric.

Speaker 2 I would also love to know how it affects their listening. The video. But I'm going off on a tangent.

Speaker 1 No, what a great question. So perfect. So here's how I want you to listen today. There's always a listening lens. We've learned so many tools. Every episode has been a tool, essentially uh a refinement. Let's use Gogo's word. So I want you to listen today as if you have paid a thousand dollars to spend an hour with a coach, a consultant, two business professionals, two people who probably I think we did the math. We would be getting paid more than that if we were charging a client to spend an hour sharing basically how this podcast went from an idea. Have you ever had an idea? To

Speaker 1 like reality. And that is for me the first time after being a creative who's done a lot of things that actually happened. The like sustainable, the sustainability, the growth, the enjoyment, the actual potential to make a lot of money, like all of that opened up because why? I finally hired a producer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's beautiful to hear. Because that's like, I mean, the goal of what I do with work, and we'll get into it, but everyone's idea of success is so different. So to hear that you are hitting your goals and like we are successful every day with you know, whatever comes out of it, it's it's great to hear.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because success does not mean the same thing for everyone. When I first started, my idea with success was I want to have fun. Remember, I was like, I don't care about money, I don't care also about the listener. Funny enough. I was like, I don't want to make a show and only think how are people gonna like it? Will people like it? How many people will follow it? And of course, now I'm like in the dashboard, like, oh my god, there's people on every continent.

Speaker 2 So And that's also where I come in. So you don't have to compromise. Like I always say creative first, data second. Like, don't let, like you said, creating for the audience stop you from making what you're going to make, because then you're gonna get stuck in. I mean, you could feed the algorithms all day, it's not gonna get you anywhere.

Speaker 1 Well, it's also gonna be for someone like me not fun. Like, that's the thing. There was a point in the season, last season, where I was very upset. I didn't want to record, I was super stressed, and I had this awakening, and I told you, I'm like, this is not fun, this feels stressful. And I was like, no, no, no. That was literally the vision, the success. So then I took a step back and I just like pivoted, which is another episode. I think it's number four. I missed that one.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a good episode, it's true to like anyone, anywhere, anytime. Yeah. Pivot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was literally like, just pivot. Okay, so what did the pivot look like? And I pivoted uh my skin. What did I pivot? Do you remember? Were you listening?

Speaker 2 I was well, I listened to that episode, but I'm like, I think also a beautiful part of the show is that like your episodes are kind of a culmination of a bunch of reflections. So I think there was a few things we were pivoting at the time, but I also love because it's a dance term too. Like you can you pivot and dance. So it's like I am literally pivoting all the time in my life that I love the metaphor because physical pivots come with emotional ones, and then also vice versa, like making a pivot in your life, even if it's not tangible, like there will

Speaker 2 still be tangible, like physical effects of it that like you gotta you gotta take care of, too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean it's all again, masterful listening, and again, I'm still giving you instructions, listener, on how to listen. It's about moving with what is like we speak differently, we have different tones. Sometimes the conversation just like where we took a really awesome detour. Wow, that was rad. That could be confusing. So, again, the lens for today. One, I want you to imagine you've literally paid a thousand dollars to sit here and listen masterfully. What does that mean? Our words, what we're saying, what are we not saying? What is the energy between us? What's the tone? Also, if you're watching on video, how cool. Pay attention

Speaker 1 to that. There's, I mean, I'm wearing a fabulous headdress. That says something about me. Gogo has her fuzzy rainbow sweater, right? But it's not just what we're wearing, we are saying so much without saying anything. And if you're really masterfully listening, life just becomes way more interesting, too. You know?

Speaker 3 I agree.

Speaker 1 That's why I love Gogo. She's just like so like it's just very calm. I'm all like, yes, I agree.

Speaker 2 It made me think about how I have been more selective with my listening because I feel like I have to be careful with who I listen to and what I'm really taking in versus listening and then like actually soaking it in and doing. Like, I can listen to you, but do I have to like hear you? You know, all those things.

Speaker 1 That's the whole point. There's what's said and what's heard. There's being heard, hearing, just be now. That's the whole point. So again, masterful listeners. I bet a lot of you have probably listened to a lot of episodes because they're so rad. But if you're new, the idea is really be here. This is not a podcast to be on in the background as you're half distracted. Uh, that is not masterful listening. That's fine, by the way. No judgment, right? Like, if you want to do that, I have friends, they're cleaning up, they're podcasting. Listen to all of the other incredible shows out there. This is one where

Speaker 1 it's like, you want to go to school, it's free, everyone's welcome. First step, sincere desire to listen. Are you genuinely curious? I even asked you, does this show inspire you? Does this idea when we met? And I'll sh get into the story in just a second. Because if she was like, nah, yeah, but not really, I'd be like, no, you're probably not the producer. It's like I want genuine interest and like you listening, if you're like, meh, this is boring, bye-bye. With love. Like, don't listen to shit you don't want to listen to.

Speaker 2 I agree. It's a waste of your time. And there's so many podcasts out there, too. So, like, you could, like you said, find one that meets you in that moment. So, like, whatever you need now.

Speaker 1 What what podcasts meet you in your moment? That's a good one.

Speaker 2 That's a good question. Yes. Well, I have so many different moments. I used to say before I got into podcasting that I had a playlist for every single mood I had ever felt in my entire life. So every time I felt a new mood, I would have to make a new playlist. So I feel similarly with podcasts and like phases of my life. Um, I feel bad because I forget the title of it, but there's this one I've been listening to. I want to say it's like one song or one hit. Um, my friend Allison showed it to me, but essentially it's like they dive into

Speaker 2 the history behind one hit song that like you know the lyrics too. It's like, what do those lyrics actually mean? Like, who put the song together? Sort of like all those things, and I like that aspect of it because I've been um I've been like nerding out about the history of like music and podcasting because podcasting is cool, yeah, and podcasting is so new that like oftentimes you can compare it to like radio, TV, movie. Um but I think that music executives are the ones that are making a lot of decisions about podcasting, so like they could look into they could learn a thing or two,

Speaker 2 but yeah, so for in yeah, so that's why uh I've been interested more in music and like the royalties and just who gets paid what and who doesn't get paid what in music and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm curious when it comes to podcasts, what what that is too, and also they're so connected. Like one of the things I was so proud of is I started producing the show, meaning like stitching the music, and that was such a goal, and I was like, I can't do it, and now I can, and it's fun, and it like I've shifted the music three times. I had a song made for the show. Shout out to Smoothie. I love my song.

Speaker 3 I love the song, I love your work.

Speaker 1 Moldovan Red, we named it. It's great.

Speaker 3 Uh, but that was such a creative, I mean, this is all creative processes.

Speaker 1 So again, that's your lens. Uh, you're about to hear a conversation that's actually not really planned or scripted, not like any of the shows are, but uh, we kind of followed the prep flow that I also want to share because this one is also for anyone who's ever wanted to start a podcast, like me. For 10 years, I was like, oh, I really want to do it and I think I'd be great. And I'm telling you, it has been great. It's been so many things, but like finding my way of doing things, getting a producer, I wanted to share some of the key things that have

Speaker 1 helped me grow this, what 600% every 90 days-ish. That's amazing. In like countries I don't even know the name of, which is embarrassing. But the point is, and it's still the beginning, right? Even podcasting is new to me. It's I feel like everyone has a podcast, it's so old. But how old is podcasting?

Speaker 2 Ooh, I actually know we celebrated the anniversary recently. Um, I want to say the word was invented 20, between 20 and 25 years ago. So the first like um broadcast was put on to the internet and they could play it in like an iPod. So they called it a podcast because it was a broadcast that you could play on your iPod. Mind blown when I learned that word. Like I can't. I was and I'll link to um there's a cute plaque that's like in this very spot, the six people like invented podcasting, like right here, and there's like a cute little gold plaque. I always send

Speaker 2 it to my podcast teams like on the the anniversary because I'm like, hey guys, like just to remind you, like what we're doing is like kind of like the frontal lobe is still developing. Like it's like still a baby podcasting. I love that.

Speaker 1 Now I feel like I'm at the forefront of well, I don't know if that's a new feeling, but it actually feels good to be at the forefront of something that has to do with technology and sharing, because to me, that's what I love. And like in like I like it, which makes me want to do it, which means if I keep doing it, like you or anyone, you'll get better at it. Like, that's not like that rare. Most people just want 10 episodes, they're done. Uh yeah, how do you keep going? So that's the invitation. I'm coming back always. By the way, this is a school,

Speaker 1 right? So as we're talking, if there's things that come up that I'm like, ooh, this is really important, take note of that. Honestly, you might want to have a notebook and a pen. I say, for me, it always helps. Uh, I also have my computer, I have my paper, I have go-go. This is the first interview I've done live at my house with another person. So it's like I want to look at you, but I'm also like, there's a camera, hey, and there's another camera, hey, and there's another. We have three cameras. I mean, this is pro.

Speaker 2 Yes. Fun fact, you can always do retakes though. So, like, or like clips at the end. But I don't know. Maybe I'll do some of that.

Speaker 1 I'll put a funny little outtake, retake. I've prided myself in the fact that I've never had to re-record anything. Like, my like I haven't cut anything, but maybe that's because maybe I'm just making that a good thing. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Well, I I have a producer's mind. I'm like, I would rather do it ten times over just so that we have a good cut. But there is also the beauty of spontaneity and all that lovely stuff.

Speaker 1 Well, that's actually a good segue. So listen as if you've paid, like you care, see how it goes. We're gonna follow up at the end, we're gonna give you some awesome homework. Actually, a cool invitation if you've ever wanted to start a podcast or anything. It has to be, it doesn't have to be podcasting, it could be literally anything in the world. It could be you want to become a dance star, you want to take voice lessons and sing songs, you want to write a book, right? Like this could apply, I think, to a lot of things, but GoGo has a lot of expertise in the

Speaker 1 realm of podcast producing. Hence, let's start there. So we met. Did you just make noise go in?

Speaker 2 I'm so embarrassed. I kicked over my water bottle.

Speaker 1 I am unbelievable. Okay, you're go go away. Just kidding. You're kicked off.

Speaker 2 No, I'm a bad guest. I'm officially my own nightmare now.

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. You are a great guest. In fact, tell us uh, what is your experience being a guest on podcasts versus producing?

Speaker 2 So I think I have produced over a hundred episodes of podcasting and guested on zero. So this is my first one that will be broadcasted live. I have done mock interviews, done real ones that just have never got published. But this is the first time that people will be hearing from me as I'm being interviewed on a podcast. So it's it's really a great moment for me, too.

Speaker 1 What an honor, and how exciting! Uh, that also shows we could keep having new experiences as we're in similar roles, right? Like the progression is super cool. And I want to call out one thing because it's literally bugging me. That candle, I want to light it. I didn't light it, so now as I'm trying to be here, I keep getting distracted by the candle, which is such a good thing for me to just voice because that is preventing me from masterfully listening. So now I have a choice. You as well, listener. If you're listening to us, and at some point you get distracted by anything, your

Speaker 1 dog, your kid, whatever, feel free. Also, you can pause and rewind, realign. And I literally want to light that candle or get it out of my way. What do you think we should do?

Speaker 2 I love that because I the first, like how I learned to meditate was the candle meditation. So if you light a candle, you can stare at it and you have something to focus on, and that might help them listen better, might help you listen better.

Speaker 1 Oh, like I mean, I the question is again, where is the lighter? We uh I know where it is. There's matches. Yeah, you know where they are, they're on the balcony. Um or how do we masterfully listen to the situation and make it? There's a lighter in the bathroom. Amazing because there is a candle in the bathroom. But seriously, as Gogo is super rad and goes to grab that lighter, that is such an example. How often have you even been in like a business meeting and you've had to pee? And then you're like, but I don't want to disturb the meeting. I, you know, and then

Speaker 1 you're just miserable the whole time. No, take care of yourself. And funny enough, for me, someone who cares about energy and aesthetics, that candle was bugging the shit out of me.

Speaker 3 And now let there be light. Let there be light, and also if you do get distracted, look at that flame.

Speaker 1 That is so great. I mean, you have a meditation podcast, actually. Do you want to tell the listener anything about your show or what inspires you about meditation?

Speaker 2 I love my show because every time I meet someone that tells me they can't meditate or they've never been able to, or it's the hardest thing in the world, I'm like, perfect. My show is designed for you because I think it's just scientifically, medically, like it is good for you. Meditation and medication are closely like spelled for a reason. Um, and so I think that being realistic about how much you can add it into your life, you know, we all are busy, so I just say that it's a great place to start, or it's a a great thing to have in like small doses. Obviously, if

Speaker 2 you could meditate for five hours a day, you'd probably be super healthy and happy, but it's not realistic. So go go flow is is sort of like um a community of meditation curious, and then people that are also, you know, on the go or want a shorter meditation, or they're interested in my lifestyle in general. I feel like That has been unexpected, but it's grown into a community that's interested in like what I'm doing outside of meditation too, because it is a huge part of my life, but it's not like I spend hours doing it. So it's something that can be important to you and not

Speaker 2 take up a huge portion of your life. So that's my mini spiel. I could go on forever, but I I love it.

Speaker 1 And I love that for so many reasons because also people then get addicted to, oh, well, now I have to exercise every single day. And I now like the good stuff can become an addiction too. So totally.

Speaker 1 And now I'm thinking about the effect, the editing after. I'm like, wow, imagine having to edit a ton of audio.

Speaker 3 So I hope that was okay. I'm like, I think we gotta bring it closer.

Speaker 1 Plus, I like my mic better. Those are both mine. I started with that one, and then I, of course, thought a second mic is so necessary.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, so mics, volume, sound, so many aspects to this moment, feeling good. You said as a producer, you're like, oh, I will do 10 takes. I, as a creative, and this is not how every creative is, a lot of people are not like me. I pretty much usually do one, maybe two. I'm like, good enough, because that perfectionism in me has actually always stopped me from my creative endeavors. So it's like this balance between what is good enough and what do I just sometimes a little more effort makes things look sound. Like you came over here a few times to make sure the sound was like

Speaker 1 really good because it matters. So with podcasting, I guess what I want to know is like what does actually matter?

Speaker 2 I think of it one step at a time in the grand scheme of things. Like when you're starting your show, you want it to sound good. I didn't want you to look like you're on a professional set, I didn't want you to have all these bells and whistles. Like, I think there are some fundamentals that are super important. So think of it as a listener. Like, what would stop you from listening? So if I couldn't hear you talking, if there was something in the background distracting me, so it could even I could still hear you, but it's distracting enough that I'm in moments where I'm supposed

Speaker 2 to be listening to you, listening to it. And I think that those things you should purchase with like your future and your goals of success in mind. So, like, don't buy the $25 mic on Amazon if you want to have a podcast that eventually makes money. I'll say it like that.

Speaker 1 You did say that, and I was like, what's a good amount to spend? And then I did buy something on Amazon that was not good, and it wasn't even, it was like $250, which again, in the realm of podcasts, I mean, there are mics that cost thousands of dollars. My whole thing with tech is always get the most affordable best option, meaning get a brand that is known to be wealth, but don't get the fanciest version unless you have a ton of money, and then bless your heart, then do whatever you want. But also expensive isn't always better.

Speaker 2 And there are things that you can upgrade. For instance, we can upgrade this mic and keep the arm. Arms aren't like, you know, really going to have a difference, but I would say that there are tiers to it as well. So, like investing anywhere from like $50 to $300 for your first couple of months or a couple of years, like is perfectly fine. And that'll get you sounding very clear and professional. The other places you want to spend money are on a platform that will host your RSS feed and give you what you want from it. So, what I mean is like, do you want really

Speaker 2 fast customer service responses? Do you want certain data points? Do you want certain opportunities to monetize? So different platforms are known for different things. There are a bunch of different platforms, some of them even run like offers and deals, scholarships. So if that's like I would also outline your ideas of success of what you want from a platform. Can I share the platform we picked for you? We picked Buzz Sprouts.

Speaker 1 Um What's up, Buzz Sprouts? Looking for sponsors who believe in the power of masterful listening, which clearly you do because you're allowing podcasters into the world.

Speaker 2 So we love you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we do.

Speaker 2 Yes, and they give us some really nice insights to our listeners, specifically location.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we can see where you are right now.

Speaker 2 We're watching. And and specifically the amount of hours is important too. Like we don't charge as much for I pay, I'm now paying the most.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because I just kept having to like buy more than that.

Speaker 2 Exactly. But like, you know, Svetlana wanted a lot of content for her audience. You have so much to share. Versus I drop GoGoFlow by weekly, so just twice per month. Right. So there's different things, different plans to pay for. So also know your cadence. And another thing is I think those are really the two things because when you record, you can if you plan to have guests, and that's another thing, then you want a virtual recording studio. If you plan to have virtual guests, which I'm guessing you are planning to have virtual guests because you want to have people that are all over the world and

Speaker 2 have various perspectives to share. And unless you're flying people out to you, it's probably you're gonna want a virtual recording room. And I like Riverside. There's also Squadcast, which just recently was bought by D Script, so you get them in conjunction, but I don't know what the price plans are. So Riverside is a nice option for a good price. You can get a lot of professional qualities, and they will give you all of your audio and video files. You can connect it camera, you can sort of like how I think of it is it's a base layer and you can add on top.

Speaker 1 Well, we're using it right now, so also shout out to Riverside. Honestly, I give you a review of probably a 9.3. Overall, really great. The only option that I either have not figured out yet or that maybe isn't yet available, but might be, is the transcripts being available.

Speaker 2 So that's to pay for those, which I think will change because Apple is now transcribing every single episode in an effort to be more accessible to those that are deaf or hard of hearing.

Speaker 1 So I think it'll become yeah, it'll be more the the norm. Maybe this is your inspiration. This is a podcast producer, she's honestly promoting different platforms. Like I chose it because she told me to, right? That's why it's like I just when you hire a professional, which by the way, do that. If there was one thing I could say about what has made this successful, it's you. It's you and me together. Because A, I don't know what you know, B, I saw your results, and I'm like, well, if she's well, don't you produce like one of like Shopify's largest podcasts? Yeah, that's massive. So you clearly

Speaker 1 know what you're doing. I'd say probably very well, if not, no, not probably, you do. So hire someone who's getting results uh that you like. Also, I didn't want to hang out with someone. I really don't like working with people, I mean, or talking to people or being with people that I don't particularly.

Speaker 2 I think a piece of advice to like sort that out really quickly in a professional way, too, is like if you share your ideas of success and your goals with them, I know I sound like a broken record with that, but their response and their reaction should be very telling. So are they passionate about it? Are they realistic about it? Like the other thing, too, is you're not going to have the largest podcast right after you start. And I think that someone should want to grow with you as well and have things to add, but also have things to learn. Like, I personally enjoy your content

Speaker 2 and your expertise. Like, I learn from your episodes as well. And that helps me and honestly inspires me to work harder and find out things that like will help give you a bigger platform at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 Well, I keep saying this is such an ultimate win-win because as a producer, let's say you're on a show that gets really big, more people know about you too, and then it's just it's like the ultimate win-win. I would say if I was a producer or any person, like I'm a coach, actually, I think it's the same thing. I don't really work with clients I don't want to work with. Meaning, have I done that? Yes. Have I enjoyed it? Oh no, it's been really hard because, and it's not about if I agree with them, it's just are they a good client for me? Like, for example,

Speaker 1 I was the worst client when we started, I think. I gave myself a D. Well, maybe a C minus because I was trying. My life was just so chaotic that I had more than enough hours on Buzzprouts. I was posting one episode every three weeks. Now I'm like two a week, but that wasn't the case the whole time.

Speaker 2 I would like to interject that it's also a privilege to be able to be picky about who we work with or who I work with, especially. And I'm like so, so grateful for that, especially because that hasn't always been the case. Yeah. And I actually said no to a client for the first time this year since I have started like being an independent worker. So I just feel even more grateful for this show and and you and your business and your growth working with me as well.

Speaker 1 Thank you for saying that. That is a huge thing. It it is a privilege. Um I I feel very privileged to be in a place where people are reaching out to me for my services. That, though, let's be real, took over a decade of constant stress and pipeline management, which by the way, I still have to do that, right? The economy's crazy.

Speaker 2 But you were consistent at it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was I was consistent at it, I'd say, not on like a daily basis, but on like a yearly basis, like I kept going, despite, oh my god, there were plenty of times I stopped, but I kept ultimately like if you look at it as a marathon, I took a few pauses, but I kept running the race.

Speaker 2 And that's the other thing with podcasting, too, is the consistency. Your listeners, the algorithm, the god, the control, the powers above, the control, the algorithms, they and your listeners will obviously respond well to the consistency, but also like respect the hell out of it, too. Like every time I like it's like I know, I mean, maybe it's because I know how much work goes into creating any episode, no matter how long, like it's going to take a lot of time and energy, that they will see that drive and be like, Well, she is like Svet is at it again. Like, it must be important that she

Speaker 2 took not only the time to record the episode, to edit the episode, publish it, and create marketing content around it and like push the message, like that in itself, like as a viewer and a consumer, which we all consume media, like I respect that.

Speaker 1 Thank you. That is wow, that's really nice to hear because I was actually when I was listening to you thinking like I this part is the easiest part for me. Once you sit down, but like my prep between first of all, I also, while we were talking, because I do listen when I take, like I get my ideas down, I think I've spent about $1,300 as an investment, other than paying you, which is a monthly fee, right? So that's a lot of money. And also, if you are a working human being who has enough where you have some discretionary income, I know people who spend that

Speaker 1 on going out to eat, going to the bar. So the point is if you can find you can find it possibly. That's not like a $20,000 investment that like anyone can really, and that's me choosing but better equipment, upgrading my timing, but software and investing into things that also I think are transferable too.

Speaker 2 Like you can use the content for other places in your business and like attract other clients to for sure.

Speaker 1 Well, speaking engagements, like stuff comes out of this, which was actually the main point. I spend more time on this than anything else I do, and I make no money here yet. So that's the other point. I I do give a shit. Like I like doing this so much that I'm probably spending 10 hours a week on something that I'm making no money from. Yes, but I love it, and I'm not making any money yet because that hasn't been my goal. That wasn't what defined success.

Speaker 2 And now recently I've been like, oh yeah, let's let's make some money because then I could do more of it and I could do it however I want, which I and you would feel better about it, which is important, and which is was one of your goals of success was to feel good about it. So it all comes back to that too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I want people to become masterful listeners because then I'll want to talk to more people. I mean, it's actually selfish, it's just about me. Most podcasts, no, most I don't read a lot. Honestly, I read some stuff that I love, but it's hard, you know. Reading is just listening to words on a paper. Uh, consuming content uh is it it just it everything is vying for our attention. So the first other thing is get clear on what you actually really want to do, whether it's a podcast, a book, or whatever. And then don't allow the content not being perfect to stop you. You told

Speaker 1 me at the beginning, you'll listen back to your first episode and you'll be embarrassed. And I'm like, no, I still like it. But the point is, you're gonna get better. Like, fail, fail, you know, just it's okay. I've like the biggest failure I know. I said, hey, listener, this is a test. Which episode was that in? And if you get it right, contact me and I will get you a t-shirt coming soon. Um yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 Is there anything that you would have changed about the start of your podcast journey? Like any tips just since you were close to like you know, it hasn't been that long.

Speaker 1 It's been six months-ish, I think. It was in August.

Speaker 2 Yeah, anything you can disdemystify or demystify, interesting. Uh because you know, you wanted to start it for almost 10 years, but you didn't. Yeah, something was holding you back, and so whoa, I just heard a crazy sound.

Speaker 3 Where? I don't know. In your headphones?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it sounded like a notification.

Speaker 1 Oh, maybe it was. I wonder if the listener heard that. Wow, you know it's funny. When Gogo heard the sound, your whole body went like, and then I felt it. That's masterful listening. Are you okay? Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, cool. That happens. I am on focus mode, but sometimes I'll get the other day. My smart glasses started talking to me and it did record. Now I'm like, this is too much. Stop it. Um, but shout out to Meta because you you would also be a great sponsor. The Ray Band, those are awesome. I've been using them, they're great. Uh, and as a content person

Speaker 1 who makes content, what a cool way to like have a hands-free content experience.

Speaker 2 So POV actually.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I will always, by the way, promote things I love. If I have got if I would have gotten paid for everything I've promoted and all the jobs I've connected people to, and like I would be a bazillionaire, honestly. I do it because I like it. And you've always told me at the beginning, you're like, don't forget to tell people to subscribe. And I'm like, oh yeah. And now it's a little more natural. So speaking of, do you want to tell people to subscribe?

Speaker 2 Uh, you guys should have already subscribed. No, you please subscribe or follow wherever you're listening now. You can also share this episode with a friend and leave a review because we will most definitely read it. And who doesn't like to have their words read? I mean, yeah, that's why we write things. So go leave us a little note. It will be public, so make it kind in five stars.

Speaker 1 But yes, please leave five star notes. But if you have feedback that's like, this is what I didn't like that I think would be better, write me. I will read that and I will respond to you and I will let you know what my plan is to address that. And I mean that.

Speaker 2 You might even get invited onto the podcast. It's good feedback.

Speaker 1 In fact, you might be more masterful than me. In fact, if you are someone who would love to come on the show, definitely write to me because uh we're getting booked faster now. I'm like, oh, baby, yeah, yeah, but no, really, we all have wisdom, we all have expertise. What to answer your question? I just came back to it. Uh I think it was time. I think on some level of me just trusting some part of me was like, I know I want to do this, I think I want to do this. And it was also everyone else saying it to me. It wasn't me. It

Speaker 1 was like people were like, When are you gonna have your podcast? Because I was making videos, I was writing articles, I was speaking, I loved it. I was getting, I was doing workshops. It was like, doesn't it just make sense? Also, I like to be with myself most of the time. Like that, like I'm kind of a hermit who sits at home. So now that I'm like in my beautiful home with Rad the dog, my microphone, and I don't have to interact with most people, it's actually the best way for me to be me.

Speaker 2 I love it. That is beautiful. Timing is everything, and that makes sense. I think with the timing too, don't expect things to get launched right away, too. Like the average professional show takes 10 weeks to launch. So remember, you don't have a professional crew behind you, most likely. So give yourself grace.

Speaker 1 Give yourself grace, and again, the first 10 weeks were of this show, had I done it on my own, and honestly, I think had it not been you were so patient with me, and then you stopped being as patient, and it was awesome because we set boundaries, because we masterfully listened. Seriously, um uh that it needed to happen because I was stuck, because my life was in a crazy place, so I was excited. Isn't that the worst? You start something and you're like, hell yeah, and then like shit hits the fan, and you're like, wow, I can't even I can't do this. I was upset with

Speaker 1 myself. I kept apologizing, and then I think what did you say to kind of like chilled me out?

Speaker 2 And you said it a lot, but well, I think that we set a new outline that was like, hey, as long as you can sit down and record, you I think you wanted to hit 10 more episodes till the end of the year. I think there was two months left, and you were like, I feel confident about that. That if I can achieve that, I'll know I can do anything for this podcast, essentially. I think was the moment that we had. And once you, I mean, once you started hitting like and getting even close to those 10, you were like, I can do those 10. I

Speaker 2 think you did 12. I did 13. 13. Yeah, I was gonna say 12 or 13. You did a few bonuses, and then also it's like, okay, well, I can set these small incremental goals because while you're doing what you're doing, like those goals are gonna start to like add up, and then you'll be at a great place. Your show will have all this amazing content, and it'll just all rise like together and keep rising.

Speaker 1 Bottom line, build build momentum, and that's like the producer and the coach. It does help once you build some momentum, and it helped to have that goal. I was like 10, and I even thought, what's a realistic number? I always tell clients when you're setting a goal, it's very important to push yourself, but not into the realm of for sure you're gonna fail. Meaning, if I'd I think I'd had three or four episodes in a few months at that point. So the idea that I was gonna record, you know, seven more was possible, but it was gonna push me. And then when I was doing it,

Speaker 1 I even recorded three interviews that all got messed up, so I couldn't use them, and I'm like, damn, well, that was a whole other lesson. Is okay, get the tech right, prepare better, which is good for me because I'm like, oh, wing it. Yes, and it's like the right balance of prep and then throw it away, right?

Speaker 2 I have my notes and prepare the technical so you can wing everything else.

Speaker 1 Prepare the technical so you could just like be even more uber creative.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Give yourself that structure so that you can flow freely, is how I see the perf like the technical stuff because it's also intimidating as hell. Like, I won't lie, I know a lot of stuff, and I'm still intimidated by a lot of things, and like the technical aspects can feel like a big barrier. They did to me that like it doesn't have to be that scary, and it can also then give you the ability to be even more creative. Like, I feel like once you got that 10 done, and even the next step, once you start editing them, like there was just so much more

Speaker 2 confidence behind like this is what I'm doing, this is like the guest I want to have on, because like you didn't have to worry, like, will it sound good? It was like, no, like will they sound will this be a good guest? It was like you get to worry about higher levels. New problems.

Speaker 3 New problems. Not really. I say you're gonna have them, you might as well get new problems. Yeah, it was also empowering.

Speaker 1 I think that's the other lesson that I see is if you hire a producer, which I would highly recommend, especially for podcasts, but like for anything else, someone who can help it it another name for it, frankly, is kind of coach. It's accountability, it's being able to get expertise from someone who knows. Like when you told me that TikTok has a new algorithm for a way to spread videos, the landscape, and then some other stuff. And then I was like, oh, amazing. And then I saw it three days later. I'm like, I got the insight scoop from someone who really does the research and. Three days

Speaker 1 in the world of social media can completely change your entire life, which is why it's like a whole news cycle, I feel like I'm saying it's like three news cycles, yeah. Um, and yeah, tech matters. I'm even I'm watching you, and I'm still mindful of how's the volume, right? Because I was leaning way back. Can you hear me as well? I mean, unless this mic's amazing, probably not. Um, oh, and it's what a horrible feeling. I once closed the platform before, remember my first guest when she was in Israel coming out of a bomb shelter. I know, but the point is if you close the browser

Speaker 1 before the episode, the file gets uploaded, you could lose it. And I was like, Yep, facing that was so bad, but it's okay. We saved it. So, again, work with someone, hire someone who can help keep you accountable, who has expertise, who you like, and be flexible around goals shifting, like define success. Okay, for me, I wanted to have fun. Now I want to have fun, and I want to make money, and I want it to grow so that so many more people hear it because I've been getting amazing feedback. That also is affirming. I'm like, oh, it's working, like it is doing the thing that

Speaker 1 I hoped it did. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it's gonna sound cliche, but I've learned so much from my time at Shopify that the faster you can fail, the better. And it'll make the show so much stronger in the future. And on top of that, oh, what was the other one? Just left my mind. Um oh, that another cliche that done is better than perfect. That you just gotta start getting stuff out of there because you could look back at anyone's like start and it's not gonna be as strong, but you gotta start somewhere. So, like get those foundational things in place and have the the structure to do well, and then just like

Speaker 2 get creative and do what feels right, because that authenticity is going to be the most successful driving force and keep that momentum alive to keep the technical up. Because just when you think you've mastered it, there's gonna be something else, and you're gonna be like, Oh my god, I just got to this level of like feeling like I was great and my podcast was great, and then you find something that's that you know will make it better that you have to push yourself to do.

Speaker 1 Remember that time we couldn't get the sound working, and then we realized we didn't turn the mic on. Like, that was the funny. I'm like, she knows what she's doing, she's a pro. And we're both staring, we're like, what is I'm like, I think you were like, what about this button? I'm like, oh, there's like a button, but like can change your life.

Speaker 5 Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 She she made more noise. No, you're a great guest. Okay, what else? I'm also mindful of like there, I like I wrote down Daniel Pink when you were talking, because I think when I was at Google many, many, many years ago, someone handed me his book. I think I've mentioned it in another episode. It was like it was a 20 years ago. It's I I always forget the name when I try to say it, but I'll I'll link it. It was about how for creativity, first of all, I just love all the work he puts out about the power of just like creative right brain, left

Speaker 1 brain, everyone's creative. But how structure actually helps us be more creative. I was fighting structure, but it's like I think the metaphor was like if you have a if you go to a playground and there's a a place where the kids could play the sandbox, the the the structure of it keeps the sand in the box, there's a thing, but then do whatever you want in the sandbox. Don't throw sand in people's eyes, but if you do and they throw sand back at you, I think that's appropriate. What's the metaphor there? Uh treat people the way you want to be treated. Maybe I made it positive.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I know you have time limits because you're a professional boss. So, so that this is the most impactful episode. What do you want to tell the listener into the camera that you think, like if you had a a video that said, these are the secrets from a top producer, podcaster about what you want to know, maybe do, undo, whatever, to make your show launch or your show more awesome. What are those?

Speaker 2 Get clear on your ideas of success today. Plan out who you want on your episodes, who you want to listen to your episodes, invest into high-quality technology that will give you the structure to be creative so that you can explore and just get started, see what comes out, see what you can create, and then afterwards see what does well and move from there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love that you always say that. Like with social, post them at the same time, look at the data. I have never loved a spreadsheet more than the spreadsheet you made. You don't understand. Like that is I love my spreadsheet. I know, and I don't, but now I do. It's exciting. And even when I started producing the the sound, like the shows myself, I was like, oh, I'm still filling it out. I think I'm one behind, but I'm gonna catch up today. Um, it is really cool to masterfully listen enough to someone else to like catch on to their enthusiasm. That's another thing. You had

Speaker 1 qualities that were different than mine. Similar, you're a lot funkier than now that I've known you and your personality, working with you, your brand, than I would have maybe thought. Because you're so you're so you're I'm 38 year old. Can I say hold your? You just turned 24. So we have a 14-year gap, which is wild. That's like a total different generation, and yet we have a very similar, playful vibe, and you're a professional, like you do what you do well, which also was a reminder. If you're looking at people's age, even experience how long I could meet a producer who's been doing this for a

Speaker 1 decade and be like, nope, I even if you're good and you kind of suck as a person or you're stressful for me, no, it's not worth it. No, I mean, it's not worth it if you value enjoying what you do, which is one of my top values.

Speaker 2 And I think the ownership and autonomy is really important podcasting, and I want to drive that home too. Like, there has never before been such a low barrier of entry to like create your own community and platform, and I think podcasting is especially unique because you can really amplify your story, your message in a way that's more intimate than social media. Like hearing my voice in your headphones right now is really personal. It's like I'm having a conversation with you, and I think that that is lost a little bit on social media because people feel that it's I mean, obviously both are still parasocial, but it's

Speaker 2 really intimate. You're just you're really listening and you're focusing on the words and like the stories we have to tell. So I think it's a great opportunity to connect with people in a way that you won't feel or I don't feel as comfortable doing on social media. Like I'm way more vulnerable even now talking to you here than I think I ever would have been if we had like even created a post on Instagram to do together or a video to share on TikTok.

Speaker 1 Like it's a different medium, that's the point. It is my favorite one. I do feel pretty comfortable on social. I also realized I couldn't hear you in my mic. So now there's a part of me that's like, if this does not all get captured perfectly, actually it doesn't matter. The headphones are a nice to have because yours are working. But hey, allow yourself to also mess shit up. Like, even if we did mess it up, the experience I had, and we did a sound check, so we're probably fine. Again, distraction, gosh, it is so helpful to have someone on your team who, when you get distracted,

Speaker 1 can bring you back, who when you're freaking out can calm you down, can also kick your ass a little bit. Like I was having to send you shit and I kept sending it late. And then I was like, I'm so sorry, which felt bad for me. And then you're also like, yo, I make my schedule based on the commitments. If you do that, it messes up my flow, which was one of the things that inspired me to do it myself. I'm like, cool, what if I learn this part? I'll save money and then I'll pay her for other expertise that makes more sense. So when you're

Speaker 1 investing and you're not a bazillionaire, be mindful of where you're spending the investment.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And if you are a bazillionaire, email Solana so you can sponsor the show.

Speaker 1 Exactly. If you're a bazillionaire or even a millionaire or someone who just has a lot of extra money and you're like, wow, imagine if I lived in a world where we were all taught how to breathe and listen. Would my life be better? And if yes, that is a great place to donate some resources. If I had it, when I have it, and there's a new podcast that gets launched and I know what it takes, I will sponsor them. Promise. So yeah, maybe you're a rich person uh in wealth and spirit who wants to also have a podcast. Imagine if you support me and then I

Speaker 1 support you right back. I mean, that's what we're all doing for each other, right?

Speaker 2 I think so. Everyone's trying to share their unique special message in a way that speaks to them. If podcasting seems like it's something you would be good at, I think you should give it a try because everyone's voices deserves to be heard.

Speaker 1 I love it. That is such a good segue into the next section of this conversation and to our wrap-up. First, what is your unique special message of the moment? Like if you could have millions of people who will one day hear this, yes, hear something, and really listen right now. What is it?

Speaker 2 I've been telling this to people over and over again, but you need to be your own number one fan. And if that sounds like the cringiest thing you've ever heard, look around at the people that love you and ask yourself why they love you more than you love yourself, and if you can emulate and like embrace the qualities that you're passionate about, you'll be able to love yourself more, and everything else will be better. So it's it's just self-love, it's the ultimate healing journey that I've been on, and think everybody can use more of.

Speaker 1 I love it. Be your own number one fan. I mean, it and not like in a cocky, egotistical way, like the self-love piece.

Speaker 2 Yeah, unless you're a woman, I think then you could get a little cocky. Yeah, we could use a little bit of that, like grow grow that cockiness, yeah, or like get cocky and then pull yourself back. That's way easier to do.

Speaker 1 Actually, I'd say that's harder to do because once you get cocky and you're like, oh, it feels great to think I'm like the master of the universe. Usually life comes and smacks you, and you're like, oh you're like, I am just another human.

Speaker 2 No one's better than me.

Speaker 1 Exactly. We're not better than, we're better at. We're not better. I I had to really learn that. A lot of people told me I was cocky, or I came off like I was all about me, me, me, which was funny because I actually didn't feel like they probably just needed to be their own number one fan.

Speaker 2 They did, and then they wouldn't be so concerned about your number one fan, which is you.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah, girl. Plus, confident women make other people, especially women who aren't, no judgment, uncomfortable. I trigger people all the time just by being me. I walk into a room, I'm bold, I speak up for myself. That is something I'm glad I do. I work on that, and I think it takes a really confident person to see someone. And I've been on the other side of this too, where it's like instead of feeling like, wow, I could be like that. Oh God, I'm not nearly like that, and I'll never be like that. Like, yes, you, I mean, whatever you tell yourself will be true. Essentially, yeah,

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah. Oh my god, if they could do it, like I see some, I saw Tim Ferris post it the other day. I was gonna say this before, and now it came back because it was meant to be said. He said something like, my first episode or the first season, it was like my family listening, it was my friends, like it all starts from one thing. And then, I mean, look what Snowball. I do like his show, some of some of those episodes. I haven't listened to a ton because I haven't listened to a ton of any podcast other than my own. I've listened to every

Speaker 1 episode multiple, multiple times. I've taken notes. Um, but I like that he said that because he has one of the biggest, most successful podcasts on the planet. And here we go. He started with just his fam. Shout out to my family and friends that have been listening. And to those who haven't, I don't like you. You're gone. You're dead to me.

Speaker 2 And if you want a sweat to look even better, then send it to another family.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's really cool. Uh, thank you to everyone who's reached out to me. And there have been quite a few people who I haven't even heard from in years, who I look up to, who are often older than me, I think smarter, and they've been like, whoa, I listened to your show, which I didn't send to them. We haven't even really marketed, honestly. Yeah, that's my favorite thing. It's amazing. And they say what they got and they say how it helped them. It wasn't just they listened and I liked it. It was like, here is what I heard, this is why it meant so much, thank

Speaker 1 you so much. And I was like, it is a very thankless job, actually, being a content creator in a way. You in fact, you just get judged and scrutinized. So, taking the time, thank you to everyone who reaches out and not just to me, but to anyone whose work you respect. And speaking of work that you respect. So, I'm assuming if you're listening, listener, and we're gonna go back into. I want to check in on how was that? What'd you learn? Are you inspired? Do you want to get your own go-go? Oh my god, well, she's available. Uh, so I'm gonna do a little honest invitation

Speaker 1 here. Here's your homework. Reflect on this conversation, notice what landed, what didn't, what surprised you. Um, if you're one of the companies we mentioned, feel free to reach out. Seriously, my contact information is available, but seriously, she's also someone who I'm I'm a little older and I've had a little more life experience. But I could tell you, when you find someone who's like young and really good at something, it is like so great to get in on that. People did that for me when I was in my 20s and I was like trying to be a photographer. And I I asked one person in particular, very

Speaker 1 well-known person, why are you asking me to take your photos? He's like, I like to get people when like before they're known. So, like, I see you having a super successful career. You just launched your super uh awesome website, I'll link that. So it what a privilege it is to like get in at the beginning, stop waiting for what you want to do. If you've had curiosity about starting a podcast, connect with GoGo. How do you do that, by the way? If someone reaches out to you and is like, hey, I'm thinking of doing this, what's your flow?

Speaker 2 Yeah, normally I set up a 20, 30 minute call with them, and I'll be honest, from there I have a few questions that help me figure out qualify. Yeah, qualify and more so learn, I sound like a broken record, but what your ideas of success are, and then also if I think that I can get you there and if the position is right for me. I also um recently have been focused more on topics that I'm passionate about. So, whereas before I was really just a big believer of like using my knowledge to help people put their stories out there, but I think as of late,

Speaker 2 I'm really interested in messages or topics that improve the human condition. I don't care what that means to you or like how you interpret that, but if that sounds like you, I'm even more excited to chat. But yeah, if you're interested at all in creating a podcast or working on a podcast, I'd be happy to connect with you and chat. I am nerding out about podcasting all the time. So if nothing else, I would probably just tell you some fun things about podcasting that you didn't know before.

Speaker 1 And if you reach out to Gogo and tell her that you sent this show to 10 people and wrote a review, she'll give you your own 60-second meditation. I just made that up.

Speaker 2 If you do all those things, yeah, I'll give you a shout-out. I feel like a shout out Instagram, I'll thank you personally. That's really nice. If they send the episode to 10 people and write a review, yeah, just tell you. And I'll I'll type you a little meditative sentence or voice memo.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a little mantra to thank you for your generosity, for your commitment to masterfully listening this far enough to actually take action. So again, thank you for I just rolled with that. I made it up, and thank you for saying yes and and for you, thank you in advance, you know, just participate in your life. I participated in believing this idea could work. We've overcome hardships, we've tried to masterfully listen. In fact, that'll be my last question before we wrap up. But for you, listener, your homework is reach out to GoGo if you want to start a podcast. It's free. Have a chat. Honestly, when I

Speaker 1 see initiative like that, so inspires me to take someone on as a client. And I don't do free work ever. But if someone reached out to me, that's your other homework. If you're like, damn, she seems like a great coach, she seems like someone I'd want on my show, she seems like whatever. Tell me what about me or what about the work inspires you. And even if you can't pay me, explain what else you want to do. Because the thing is, I've had a lot of people help me in a lot of ways, some financially, some emotionally, mentally, spiritually. When I see someone really cares, oh,

Speaker 1 I am so much more inspired. And guess what? How you can tell if someone cares when they're masterfully listening to you. So as we wrap up, what has been the best lesson you've learned from masterful listening? Like, if you were gonna be in an elevator with someone and they're like, Oh, can you tell me about your favorite podcast you produce or one of them? And like, what did you really get out of it? What is it?

Speaker 2 I mean, I think that phrase you say just like says it so well that there's what's been said, what's been heard, what's been like interpreted, like all of the different perspectives. Like, I think I've really taken away that listening is such a multidimensional like space, like just the listening space. I think that that's the biggest takeaway I've gone because I'm a writer and like I so focus on like the space I need to be in to like write, but like the listening space in itself, like I I guess that sounds really general, but that to me was so new, and that's like the biggest thing that

Speaker 2 I've learned. And I also learned a lot from your storytelling as a former storyteller that I love the way you I guess this isn't necessarily a specific, like detailed learning, but I've learned like the way that you incorporate humor and like emotion and like suspense and like even like the volume changes in your voice. Like, I just think that I've learned a lot from your storytelling and how to be a really captivating storyteller, really confident storyteller, but also someone who no matter how confident you are, like I can always still see the growth. So it's like you're humble at the same time, too, in your storytelling,

Speaker 2 and that's I think my favorite part about the show in general, and also what like I've learned.

Speaker 1 What I'm hearing is that I'm super humble, and I agree. I'm so humble. See, that's what I chose to hear, but no, I heard a lot more. Thank you. I appreciate that. And that also, as a final wrap, is like work with people, even if whether they're paying you or you're paying them, that you learn from that you want to learn from. Because we, if we listen, can learn from everybody. How cool! Then life becomes this free school or not free school that's actually super rad that you want to go to, like this one. And there is no other listening school, so everyone has ideas. When

Speaker 1 I got the term masterful listening, I was like, that must exist. Yes, there's no way it's available. That was five years ago. It was so don't wait.

Speaker 2 I was just gonna say, will you repeat that sentence just because I love it so much and I I can't remember the if you remember it? You opened a specific episode with it. You were like, There's what's been said.

Speaker 1 Oh, that was a little poem that I wrote last minute. It was here. As I look here, I'm gonna see if it just pops up because that's what I do. My structure is I write, my like I get inspirations, I jot them down. Like that's okay.

Speaker 2 Go, we can send them to that episode. Touch them listen.

Speaker 1 We're gonna send you, and you know, I can tell you what episode it is. It is the episode a few episodes before this one. We will link it.

Speaker 2 We will say this is the episode, go go one, so you can listen to the intro and I mean listen to the whole thing, but I even thought that could be a tagline when it came to me.

Speaker 1 I was like, there's what's said and what's heard, there's what's read and what's no, I'm messing it up. Point is it was it was a moment of genius, and you'll go listen to it. Yeah, thank you. See, she she'll tell you what to do. So check out GoGo Flow and uh thank you. Thank you for everything. Thank you for being the producer, thank you for being really.

Speaker 1 You need a little kick in the butt. Um, and uh yeah, so exciting to see what what we do next.

Speaker 2 I am stay tuned for more.

Speaker 1 Stay tuned for more. And we're out.