Neuro-Magic Unleashed: Hypnosis, Subconscious Rewiring, and the Art of Masterful Listening with Special Guest Andrew Rader, LAc,MS.

Speaker 1 Welcome back, masterful listeners. This is the premiere of season four. Wow. Yeah, here we are. We made it. I made it. I didn't know if I would make it. Uh if you've been listening to the show, you might know that the last couple of months were really, really, really challenging. I had to say goodbye to the love of my life, Rad. Rad is my doggie. If you're watching this video, you might see his beautiful face right behind me. And while I had to say goodbye to Rad's physical body, I can say that now that it's been a bit over two months, I feel Rad with me.

Speaker 1 I feel his wisdom has been ingrained in me. I feel love growing for him every moment of every single day. And Rad has continued to take care of me, to send me angels and support throughout a time that has been challenging, not just because I'm grieving, but just missing my best friend, my compassionate canine companion. But also I've sustained some insanely deep and really severe injuries in my body. And I've learned personally what grief can do to our body. And I'll be talking a lot about that on this season. But for today, I'm so excited because I have a very, very special guest. I have a

Speaker 1 guest who I will introduce in just a moment. And his name is very special because it has the letters R A D in it. And that is how I knew that Andrew Rader was not just a person who was gonna help me with something very important in my life, uh, but that he was sent by Rad. You know, I'm someone who believes in magic and who doesn't believe in coincidences. And a lot of what happened with me and Andy, as he has allowed me to call him, uh, it feels like magic. I had a hypnosis that lasted just 33 minutes. And because of that, my entire

Speaker 1 relationship with smoking that I've had for many, many, many years shifted in an instant. And it feels profound and it feels deep. And it made me think about again the power of our mind and our brain and our ability as human beings to change and evolve. And you know what? It has a lot to do with listening. So, with that, let's get to it.

Speaker 1 So it's my pleasure to introduce Andrew Rader. Andrew Rader is a hypnotherapist, acupuncturist, and herbalist. He received his B.S. in biochemistry from UC Berkeley and his MS from the American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine. He completed an internship at the China-Japan Friendship Hospital in Beijing. Andrew studied smoking cessation hypnosis with Will Goody and has been in private practice since 1988. Wow, Andy, I was born in 1985. You have so much experience doing this work. It's incredible. I am so grateful to have your wisdom. And before I start talking in the middle of your bio, I also want the listener to know that Andy has been practicing

Speaker 1 Tai Chi, Qigong, and meditation for the past 40 years. And he brings all of this experience and wisdom to his work with his clients. And I'm so, so grateful to have him on the show. Something that I've heard Andy say is I have a passion for blending the best that Chinese medicine has to offer with modern mind science to address the contexts of our lives here, now, and in the 21st century. So welcome, welcome, welcome, Andrew Rader, Andy to Masterful Listening.

Speaker 2 Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Here we are.

Speaker 1 Here we are. This is it. Okay, now I'm settling in. So as every episode goes, what I'm gonna do now is welcome the listener back. Um, I don't know who you are on the other end of this show, but if you're listening, I'm assuming either you've listened to the show previously, in which case you might know what's been happening in my life, or this is your first episode. How cool! What a great episode to be joining on. Uh, this is a really special topic. Me and Andy met recently because I decided I was ready to end my on and off again love affair with smoking. It

Speaker 1 just was something I knew I would do when I was ready, and it's not something I've talked much about publicly. Uh and um it was fascinating because he's a hypnotist, and I did a search and I found him. And well, it worked to bottom line it, but it's been so profound for me. And when I had the experience with Andy and I listened to him and I learned about his work, I was so amazed, and I've seen what's happened in my life that I thought there's such a correlation between what he does as a hypnotherapist, acupuncturist, healer, meditator. Like it's all connected to this idea of

Speaker 1 masterful listening. So for the listener, what I want to say is I invite you all here is first of all to just get settled and present right now. I feel like I came into this one a little bit. Um I don't know what's the energy that you feel from me, Andy. I feel like I'm scattered. So I don't know, maybe it's just me. But I just want to settle.

Speaker 2 The quickest way to settle is notice the sensation of movement in your belly, and it won't take you away from what you're doing. And your belly's always moving because you're always breathing, and you don't have to do anything in particular, you don't have to breathe in any particular way. You're just noticing something that's already happening, which immediately brings you into the present moment.

Speaker 1 I remember you said that during our session, and just now when I did it, it brought me back. I was feeling a little out of it, like out of my body almost. So thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. I also love Andy, you have such a calming voice and presence. After I spoke with you for the first time, I literally described it to people as I really wanted to listen to him. It was easy for me to listen to him, and that is such a rare feeling that I have that I was like, whoa, what was it about this person that made it easy for

Speaker 1 me to listen? Because that's the whole point of this show, right? So before we dive in, I want to share with the listener this. I'm not gonna go detailed into what's been happening in my life. If you want to know, listen to the last season and you'll hear. But essentially, in the last few months, this has just been a time of deep grief. I lost Rad, my love of my life, my doggie. If you're watching the video, Rad's right behind me. But in losing rad, my body shut down. I've been physically injured, I've been healing and grieving. And I realized, like I knew. I'd always said

Speaker 1 that when it was time, I would stop smoking. And my smoking journey, again, I describe as like a love affair with like an ex who you know is kind of bad for you, but you still love them. And it was this on again, off again experience I'd had for 20 years. And it was complicated and convoluted, but I got to the point where I just knew that it was time, and I was really scared about it, and it was very confusing. But one day I just sat down amidst my grief and pain and I just Googled smoking hypnosis because that's the one thing I'd never tried,

Speaker 1 and I was really curious. And the first name that pops up on Google that I see is Andrew, and I see Radder, R-A-D. So that's where I was like, oh my God, Rad, really, are you sending me this person? And and that's just who I am, right? I was looking for signs, and that's kind of how I found you. And we made a set we made an appointment. And listener, I'm telling you this because I think it's really important, understand a little bit of the context. I spoke to Andy and then we had our hypnosis. I think I was with you for what, maybe two hours,

Speaker 1 but the actual session was. Do you remember how long the actual session was?

Speaker 2 Uh probably about you mean the amount of time you were in the room with me or the amount of time your eyes were closed?

Speaker 1 My like in the what would we call it, like a trance state, and we'll get more into that, but like the hypnosis.

Speaker 2 About a half hour. About a half hour.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I remember when I came out of it, you said, How much time do you think has passed? And I said, 33 minutes. And you looked at me like, whoa, that's exactly what it was. So yeah, in just 33 minutes, I walked out of there, and I can tell you I haven't smoked, I have no desire to smoke, and it's kind of wild that I did something for 20 years on and off that I genuinely enjoyed. And I know that I'm a not a non-smoker and I'll never smoke again. That to me felt like magic. And we talked about it beforehand that it almost sounds like,

Speaker 1 how's that possible? And yet now that I see it is, I was like, we gotta talk more about this. What how does this work? Because it's so much about the mind. And yeah, so that's how we're here. I was so amazed with my experience with Andy, and I know it could benefit people, so I invite the people listening to do this. This isn't about smoking, even though it is. I want you to listen today, because this is school, right? We're in the world's first super rad listening school. I want you to listen through the lens of imagine that you believe in magic. Just imagine for the

Speaker 1 sake of our conversation today, that you believe that anything can happen, even the things that don't seem possible, and just notice how that feels to listen. If at any point your mind starts to wander or speak, say all the things that our mind does, just notice it, come back. Just do this as an activity, just for the sake of today, as we speak. I'm gonna ask Andy questions, we're gonna go into stories, who knows what we'll end up. But I really want you to put on that lens, that perspective for this episode of just what would it be like to listen as if you believed in

Speaker 1 magic, whatever that means for you. And Andy, do you want to add anything around the invitation for the listener of how to listen to our conversation?

Speaker 2 Well, I I want to say something about magic. Now, a hundred years ago, if if you had said I could talk to someone across the world, see their picture, talk to them in real time, that would be some magical thing. And most people wouldn't even begin to believe that could happen. So um hypnosis, when you when you find out, and I'm hopefully I'm gonna explain some things that'll make make it seem like it's not magic, it's pretty straightforward. It's um and when we're talking about hypnotherapy, as opposed to hypnosis, like on a stage where people get up on stage and do silly things, which I'm happy

Speaker 2 to explain how that works a little later on. Um, hypnotherapy is relying on our unconscious mind's number one job, which is to protect us, keep us safe, keep us alive. So if we're making suggestions that are going in that direction, your unconscious mind will accept those suggestions. And if they're not going in that direction, your unconscious mind will not accept those suggestions. So only if it's for your well-being, and when I'm talking about well-being, it's not about ethics or morality, it's about your physical body, your biological being, being in alignment with staying alive, staying safe, staying well. That's that's what we're relying on. And so with

Speaker 2 tobacco, it's a it's a slam dunk.

Speaker 1 See, this is where maybe we can begin, because there's so many things I want to ask you about. But again, specifically, let's talk about the tobacco piece for a minute, because that's what brought us together. And, you know, for again, the listener, I I say that this isn't about smoking because at the end of the day, if again you've heard the show, habits, the things we do, the addictions that we might have in our life, right? I'd heard for many, many years that quitting smoking is one of, if not the hardest things to do. I've heard that story my entire experience as someone who has smoked

Speaker 1 and then stopped, right? I had this whole experience around it. And when I spoke to you for the first time, I was just so amazed with just what you shared to me from just the perspective of why tobacco is actually very unique and why it can be something that you can poof, like quit in one session, right? And how there's misconceptions around it. And then from there, I do want to dive into talking about how this relates to other things. But can you just tell us just a bit more about hypnosis and the tobacco piece, whatever you feel like would be a good entrance for people

Speaker 1 who don't know much about sure, sure.

Speaker 2 Um so we'll we'll start with tobacco, and then from there we can spread out to other things. But because tobacco is so black and white, it'd be a good example. So if you remember when we first had our conversation on the phone, first I'm gonna find out why do you want to quit? Like what is motivating you? Because you can't make people do things they don't want to do, including hypnosis. You can't make people do things they don't want to do. So I have to find out is this something you really want to do? And let's just say for anyone with a bad habit, especially with

Speaker 2 tobacco, usually there are two parts of the mind. One part of the mind says, This is crazy, I'm killing myself, I need to quit, I'm quitting. And then the other part of the mind says, No, I like it, give it to me. I want it. And if you don't, I'll make you miserable. And so there's this internal battle that happens, and that's what makes it hard to quit. It's not about the nicotine, because if it were about the nicotine, then the gum and the patch would be the easiest thing in the world because you get plenty of nicotine, and it's not that effective. Um, but let

Speaker 2 me back up a little. So imagine this is what I say to everyone. Imagine if you gave a five-year-old a puff of a cigarette. There is no five-year-old that would want a second puff. Because a five-year-old, they're just in their direct experience of what it feels like to have smoke in the lungs. They don't care what their friends think, they don't care what the surgeon general says. It's the experience of smoke in the lungs, just like any animal with lungs, they immediately reject it. That's the natural response. Same if you put a cigarette under a dog's nose or a cat's nose. They don't like it, they

Speaker 2 don't want it. But for most people who become smokers, they start as teenagers. And so, what's going on with the teenager who becomes a smoker, their physical body is still saying no. Like, no. But if they become a smoker, something has to be pushing them in the other direction, and that's almost always social. So, young smoker, they're smoking, they're with their friends, they're cool, they're a rebel, they're an adult, they're feeling good. And their unconscious mind says, Hey, I'm feeling good. Oh, look, there's a cigarette in my hand. It must be the cigarette that's making me feel good. They make that leap. And then you repeat

Speaker 2 that a bunch of times. It's that Pavlovian conditioning, like feet, ring a bell, feed the dog, ring a bell, feed the dog. Pretty soon the dog's gonna associate the sound of the bell with food. Well, pretty soon young smokers can associate feeling good with their friends with the cigarette because they always seem to come together. And so then this belief develops oh, I know how to feel good, smoke a cigarette, and that's what drives the habit. It's a belief, thankfully, a false belief. Oh, I know how to feel good, smoke a cigarette. So, what everyone has in their favor to quit is the truth will set

Speaker 2 them free because it's a false belief. It's a false belief. So, what I tell people is there are two powerful natural forces that will enable them to quit on a dime and never look back, which you've experienced. So, one of them is the truth of tobacco, which we were just talking about, which is there's nothing in tobacco the body wants or needs, zero. It could leave the planet, and we'd be fine. You know, water couldn't leave the planet, oxygen couldn't leave the planet, but tobacco could. And then the other powerful truth is what I mentioned earlier, the unconscious mind has only one job, which is to

Speaker 2 protect us from danger, to keep us safe, keep us well, keep us alive. And so when those two things line up, you won't want to smoke. And I I use the uh example of drinking gas. Like we don't drink gas, right? Uh, but we don't wake up in the morning worrying about it or thinking about it or wondering how am I going to make it through today without drinking any gas. We don't do that. It's completely out of our minds, and we never drink gas. And that's that's because a very long time ago, for everyone, for the most part, um each part of the mind, the

Speaker 2 conscious mind and the unconscious mind, realize drinking gas is not going to work out. So then the unconscious mind says, Hey, listen, you don't have to worry about it. We got you covered, we'll make sure you never drink gas ever. And you can forget about it. And so that's our experience in life around drinking gas. We don't think about it, we don't worry about it, we never worry, and we don't drink gas. So then I asked the smoker, what would happen if you saw tobacco the same way you see gas, like as a threat. You wouldn't want to smoke, and you wouldn't worry about it, you

Speaker 2 wouldn't think about it, it would just be gone. So then I know it's a long explanation.

Speaker 1 No, no, I love it. It's good, and I kept wanting to interrupt, and I'm practicing masterful listening because I want you to keep going, because I will say some things. Please continue.

Speaker 2 This will be the longest stretch. The whole thing I'm almost there. Good. So this is where the hypnosis comes in. Um, because you have this false belief, the unconscious mind believes that's good for you. Uh normally there's this internal battle, and normally the unconscious mind doesn't want to hear about it. Doesn't want to hear the truth, doesn't want to hear what the surgeon general says, doesn't want to hear what the conscious mind already knows. So with hypnosis, it's a way to talk to the unconscious mind when normally it doesn't want to hear about it. And and the example I use is for most of us, we

Speaker 2 remember the scene in The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy sees behind the curtain what's actually going on. And what's actually going on is there is no wizard. It's just a little old man operating a machine. As soon as Dorothy sees this, it's over. The wizard no longer has any power over her, and it will last her the rest of her life. All she has to do is see once that there is no wizard, it's done. Now, the funny thing is, if before she saw behind the curtain, if somebody came up to her and said, Hey Dorothy, you know there's no wizard, it's just a little old

Speaker 2 man operating machine. And by the way, I have five witnesses who helped them break build that machine. Here they are. Um, well, it would be a pretty compelling argument. She would probably take it into consideration, she'd think about it, but she wouldn't bet her life on it. But once she saw what was going on behind the curtain with her with her eyes, yes, you bet she bet her life on it. So that that's what happened. We we bring the smoker, uh, we pull the cut curtain on tobacco, they see it the way their five-year-old selves would see it, the way it actually is, and then it's

Speaker 2 that's it. And that's why you can do this in one session and be done.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I mean, I'm just listening and I'm just like, If you could see my physical expression, which probably most people can't because I'm not gonna post the video of this yet, but I I'm just like smiling because you said all of this to me, and I remember hearing it, and I loved it. I was like, yeah, it resonated. Of course I wouldn't drink gas, but still there was a part of me that was like, could I really, truly not? I I knew I could stop smoking, but I thought that if I did, that I'd still want to do it, but I'd be doing it because

Speaker 1 it was time, right? For me, I was like, I always said, I'm gonna stop before I'm 40. And I also kept saying, I'm gonna stop when I want to. There was so much there, right? I started smoking when I moved to Italy, and it was cool to smoke in Italy. Like it wasn't like here in Marin, I think people shame you. I think people secretly smoke when they don't. It's like this like this weird thing. Ooh, smoking. And yet, anyone out there who's actually had the experience of like cigarettes were my friend in a big way. I had the same story. They grounded me, they gave

Speaker 1 me a chance to take a breath. And no matter what anyone said, it didn't matter because some part of me really enjoyed it and thought it was good, and another part was starting to fight. So that internal thing was happening. My worry was well, could I really not want to do it like the gas? And so the fact that I walked out of there on August 29th, and there hasn't been a single moment that I genuinely wanted to smoke. Today I drove by and people were smoking, and I just smelled it. And my whole body was like, oh, I didn't judge them, by the way. That

Speaker 1 was also super cool. I loved how you said to me that now when you see people smoking, you won't judge them. Because of course, I don't believe in shaming people for doing the thing that I did for a long time. You said something to me like you will simply know that they haven't understood or done what you have. Like the idea for me that my mind, my subconscious could see something, understand. And you even said, hey, listen, that it could listen enough to shift something that I've been doing for two decades, that I genuinely like I I I'm kind of I am amazed. And that's why

Speaker 1 it felt like magic. And now that I've the first few days I remember felt a little weird because I realized how much of my life I did take a break to smoke. And then I was just like, oh, that's weird. But I I tuned in, I had a rough moment one day. I think I even texted you. I opened my glove compartment. I was feeling a little overwhelmed because also I'm still going through a really hard time. And cigarettes were my like, I thought they helped me. And I'm like, but then now the thing that was helping me, ground, is gone. So I was spinning. And

Speaker 1 I opened my glove compartment and I found a pack of cigarettes, which I didn't mean, I didn't like keep it as a secret. I legitimately got rid of everything, and I literally held it in my hand and I asked my body, do you want this? And it was such a clear no. Like everything in me was like, no, I don't want that in my body. Did I want to feel good and relaxed? Yeah, but it's like I knew inside that it wasn't gonna be that. And that is profound because I really believed before this, every other time that I'd stopped, but then time would go by

Speaker 1 and I'd start again. I was always like, oh, let me just have one. And then it cascaded into this pattern. So I was like, wow, to me, this was the most incredible experience. Actually, I would bet my life on it now. Now, like I am so confident on it, and I needed to see for myself. And I even told you, I'm like, I kept saying, when this works, I want you to teach me because it's like amazing how many people are out there suffering from these. I put in quotations because I don't want to say addictions are not real, but didn't you also say that it's

Speaker 1 like not an addiction or talk to me about you said something about addiction versus habit. Can you clarify that piece?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I uh so I'll always ask someone, and I'll and I'll pose it like this. I'm gonna ask you a trick question. Do you think you're addicted? And it doesn't matter what answer I get, because what I'm really wanting to do is talk about the word addiction. Now, in the old days, addiction really meant chemical dependency, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, right? Meth. Um, and then but we also talk about gambling addiction, Facebook addiction, Netflix addiction, right? Texting, um, shopping. Those are not chemical dependencies. So let's call those habits. Right? They're not chemical dependencies, they're habits. So gambling habit, Netflix habit, right? So I say, and and this

Speaker 2 is a small little screen here. I'm gonna say, if you have we, I mean, we talk about using the same word for heroin and Netflix. That doesn't work. Addiction, you got a heroin addiction, you got a Netflix addiction. Clearly, those are two very different things. So let's, for the sake of argument, say chemical dependencies are addictions, and then non-chemical dependencies, you can even call them compulsive behaviors, are habits. Okay, and so it's really important to understand what is a habit, and and it could be any kind of habit, you know, nail biting, hair pulling, um any habit. Well, first of all, habits are a necessary uh

Speaker 2 a necessary thing in our lives. We need habits.

Speaker 1 Can you define that? Define what is a habit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, a habit is something that in the beginning we learn how to do, like tying your shoes.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 So when you're little, yeah, you learn how to tie your shoes. And when you are learning, you have to use your conscious mind to learn. You have to think about what you're doing. Like this string goes over this string and around and back behind, and you make a loop, and and it and it takes an effort. But if it's something that is going to be done the same way over and over after a certain period of time, so many repetitions, your unconscious mind says, Oh, I got it now, I'll take over, and you can forget about it. And that's how you can tie your shoe, and

Speaker 2 it doesn't involve your conscious mind. Like, can you imagine what your day would be like if you had to think about how to tie your shoe? Or let's take something a little bit more complicated, like driving. So when you first learn how to drive, yeah, you bet you have to focus and concentrate and think about everything you're doing. But after a certain period of time, your unconscious mind says, We're probably gonna have to do this again and again and again. And I got it now. You don't have we got it, we'll take over. You can forget about it. So that's how you can have the experience

Speaker 2 of driving and suddenly you realize where have I been the last 10 minutes? Like I've been operating a vehicle, yeah, and and I'm here, but I don't remember how I got here. That's because your unconscious mind is driving the car, your eyes are open, your ears are open, your hands and feet are moving, but you're not consciously thinking about that. You could be thinking about what you're gonna have for dinner, or who you have to talk to tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Or or 20 things at the same time.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right. Or think about anything else you do over and over all day long. Like you walk into a room, you know where the light switch is, your hand just hits the lights. If you play an instrument, once you've learned that particular song or those chords, or your unconscious mind says, Okay, I got it. Or typing. Most people who can type, it'd be very hard for them to verbally say, What are the keys on the keyboard? They'd have to really stop and think about it. But their fingers can do it 60, you know, 60 words a minute. So habits allow us to get through the day so

Speaker 2 that our conscious mind can focus on new things.

Speaker 1 I love that. So I was just gonna say, as a bottom line, that's what the like t-shirt is. Habits allow us to get through the day so we could focus on learning new things. I'm a big fan of like, it's a joke in my community. Like, can you bottom line that? But I love that. That's great. Like, because the distinction between this is a habit. So you told me that my smoking was more of a habit, even though I'd say most would say it's an addiction, right? The nicotine piece. And it's tricky, right? Like, I'm not gonna argue with anyone who might say I'm addicted to

Speaker 1 the nicotine, but I can tell you for me, I knew that wasn't it. I could just feel it. I can't explain it. I haven't felt any nicotine withdrawal this whole time. And I was smoking a lot at the end. I was so stressed about rad and I was so sad that that was one of the reasons I needed to stop. And that's also been fascinating, right? Because of course there is some chemical component, but the way I saw it was that wasn't the main reason that I kept going back to it. I really, really believed that it grounded me. I really believed that what it was

Speaker 1 doing to help me was outweighing any harm. And I'm kind of a smart person. I understand science. I understood in some level that smoking wasn't the best thing I could do for my body. But from my mental health perspective, also I'm a bit of a rebel and I was kind of like, fuck you, honestly. A part of me was like, don't tell me what to do. I think there's a little bit of that. But now, it's only been a month, I'm like, wow, it is really profound. How when my unconscious, subconscious mind understood something, how an entire behavior that I've had for half my life poof

Speaker 1 shifted right away. And that to me is why this is all fascinating. Because think of the power of that experience beyond just smoking, right? Like when I think of masterful listening and when I think of mental health, or just as a coach, that's what I do. I help people rewire their mind, basically. And this was such an example of that. That I'm like, Andy, can you hypnotize me to clean my apartment and uh get my taxes in order and lose that weight? And it's I was like, wow, can you just do this? Can you just get your subconscious to see all these other things that if

Speaker 1 you got it to see would shift all your behaviors? Because that's pretty profound. So, like, can you talk to us about that? Like hypnosis in general. I want to know more of like how did you get into it and like the power of it goes beyond just smoking, right? Like in a bigger way.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, um, let me give you a picture or everyone a picture of the unconscious mind. Um imagine if you were out in the middle of the ocean at night with no moon, it's completely dark, vast, infinite darkness. And it's dark because, by definition, what we're not aware of it, we're unconscious of it. And then what you see with a flashlight is the conscious mind, a tiny sliver of all of this, of all reality. And the problem is the flashlight, the conscious mind thinks it's in charge, it thinks it knows everything. And but really, who's in charge? Right? The unconscious mind, I mean, it's scary to

Speaker 2 think about, but it makes perfect sense. The unconscious mind is completely in charge. The conscious mind could can do certain things at certain times. Uh, but if the unconscious mind wasn't on board, it's not gonna happen. Um and again, it's for our survival. And and I define the unconscious mind as everything that's happening that's keeping us alive that we couldn't possibly, possibly stay on top of. Again, if you had to think while you're walking down the street, left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, it would be a real hard day. If you had to think, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, let alone

Speaker 2 the 40 million other metabolic processes that are happening beyond our conscious mind. It's just unbelievable. So the unconscious mind takes care of all of that for us, so that our puny conscious mind, the little flashlight, can do certain things one at a time. That's what's happening. And when you talk about, so I'll say this about smokers. Every smoker believes that smoking makes them feel good, it makes them feel like uh it helps them relax, it helps them deal with stress, but it's the exact opposite. If you wire somebody at all their physiologic processes, blood pressure, temperature, heart rate, right? As soon as somebody inhales smoke, the

Speaker 2 body freaks out, the body wants to get rid of it because it's poison. So blood vessels constrict, heart rate goes up, blood pressure goes up. All these things are really stress responses, not relaxation responses. But because the unconscious mind believes that it's good for you, because remember, way back when you were a teenager, you're associating feeling good with that, it's gonna believe that.

Speaker 1 No, I have to interrupt here. I gotta say this. This is so real. I started to feel that my body started feeling so crappy, and I kept smoking. And then I did enough work on observing myself that I was like, okay, this is where there's just a problem because I know that I'm doing something, that my body is literally, and now that I've had all this inflammation in my body, like I haven't been able to walk still in a few months. And by the way, just now getting better. I thought, no, I don't want to have an internal fight with me all the time, which is

Speaker 1 why trying hypnosis seemed smart, because I knew that some part of me really believed I that's why I was doing it. It didn't, it almost did, it was like I had no control. That's how I felt. I felt like I lost control over this, that it wasn't something I even enjoyed anymore. And that sucked, right? So, my point, the reason I wanted to interrupt there, and I want the listener to hear this, is like, are you listening to your body? Because I feel like most of us are not paying attention to our body. And if we are actually listening to our body and we feel, oh,

Speaker 1 suddenly my heart is racing, and oh, I started getting like I would get um sweaty or my head would start hurting, or I would start getting nauseous. That was my body's reaction to having something in it that it didn't like, but I kept rationalizing it. Oh no, it's not that, it can't be the smoke, it must be something else. It's like, well, it's probably not helping. So, from a masterful listening perspective, I just want to really pause that and say, like, and by the way, I'm not saying this to shame anyone, I'm just admitting it actually. There's a vulnerable part of me. I've never actually spoken

Speaker 1 much about smoking because a part of me was like, oh, I don't want to be judged. And honestly, screw it. I think it's just that's my thing. It's been this association. I wasn't a teenager, but I was like, when I was in Europe, everyone did it. It was cool and it made me happy. And yeah, and that clearly was not true. Like, that's I'm still blown. My mind is still like, I just can't even believe how much it shifted instantly. And I want us to all listen to our bodies more, is the other bottom line.

Speaker 2 You're bringing uh really the bottom line, you're hitting the crux of it. And it and this part, it doesn't have to be about smoking, it could be anything else. If we are awake and aware and paying attention in the present moment, then the wisest action will follow. The wisest action will follow. Naturally, it's not something that we should or shouldn't do, it it's what will naturally happen. But we have to be open to seeing what's actually happening right now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's I'm finding really scary for people.

Speaker 2 Um it can be scary, yep.

Speaker 1 It can be scary because I'm just thinking, why are our subconscious minds often filled with so many crappy stories and beliefs? Like I've really been sitting with that in this time where I've been handicapped for a couple of months. Like I'm 39 years old, I lost my love, I've been so injured that I haven't been able to walk. My body started even screaming about the smoking, I think, in a way to help me too. Like this is all coming together in a way, I think, to help me. But I'm just wondering like facing yourself feels really hard for people. Like it that awareness, the acceptance of

Speaker 1 oh, this is what's actually here can be scary. I see it as a coach. And I'm just wondering from your experience, like, what do you have to say about that? Because that's where it all starts, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I would say that um what's often scary is an idea or a concept, and the actual experience is not so scary, even if it's uncomfortable or painful in the moment, um what we tend to do here. I'll give you an example. Let's say take a guitar player, a professional guitar, and they cut their finger on their left hand. So there's the actual sensation of pain in the finger. Not, you know, it's not the end of the world. But what almost immediately happens unconsciously is oh my god, I'm not gonna be able to play on Friday night. And if I can't play on Friday night,

Speaker 2 I'm not gonna be able to pay my rent. And if I don't play my rent, I'm gonna be homeless. Like, so that's what the Tibetans call the suffering on top of the suffering. The actual moment is there's this sensation in my finger, and but if they're paying attention, they'll say, Oh, there's a thought about the future, and that's uncomfortable, and then there's another thought about the future, but they're aware of what's actually happening: a sensation, and then a thought, and then an emotion, and but normally it happens all of it completely unconsciously, and then this anxiety builds. I mean, that's what an anxiety reaction could be.

Speaker 2 But if we could break it down by moment by moment, what am I experiencing right now? What am I experiencing? And there are only seven things in life as humans that we can experience. We want to make it really simple.

Speaker 1 Yes, yes, let's do it. Let's make it simple. Super simple.

Speaker 2 Yeah tell us. Anything you can experience in this world in this life, you could break down to seven types of experiences. And five of them are our sense awareness. So you can be experiencing sensation. Like sensation in the body. You can be experiencing sound, light, smell, taste. That's five, right? I didn't forget any.

Speaker 1 No, those are yeah, got it. That's five. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Five out of seven. Six is no particular order. Uh-huh. Is thought. Oh. You can be aware that you're thinking a thought while you're thinking the thought, but usually we're completely unaware. And a metaphor for that is watching a movie. You get involved with the story, you get involved with the plot, you forget you're watching a movie. Don't open the door, watch out. But you could realize in any given moment, oh, wait a minute, this is a movie, those are actors, that's a green screen, it's not real. You're still aware of the plot, but it's not grabbing you in the same way because you are now aware

Speaker 2 of the bigger truth, which is it's a movie. The same with a novel, but hey, you know what? The same with your own life. The same with your own life. We get so involved with our ideas and thoughts about what's happening that we're not aware of what is actually happening. And again, what is actually happening? Sound is happening, sight, light is happening, smell, taste happening, sensations happening, thoughts are happening, and feelings and emotions are happening.

Speaker 1 So that's seven. That's the seven, the feelings and emotions. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Oh, sorry, I missed that last. No, I was gonna just ask, what's number seven? Okay. What's number seven? And we say feelings because really uh an emotion is something you feel in your body. So you could even say they're only six because feelings are sensations, yeah. That we commingle with thoughts, and anyway, let's just call it seven.

Speaker 1 I like seven as a number.

Speaker 2 And so if we're sitting back consciously watching moment by moment, then you could it could be this stream of oh, there's a thought, oh there's a sensation, oh there's a sound, oh there's another thought, oh, there's another smell, there's a sensation, there's a feeling like that. It moment by moment, continuous display, continuous parade of the show.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think I told you this uh when we spoke, that the book that opened my awareness to the fact that I am literally not my thoughts, that I am observing them was The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. And I literally remember the moment I read that book, and it's not like I'd I just something about the way he wrote it and me just something clicking in that wait, I'm not my thoughts, I'm not my feelings. Well, then who am I? Oh, I'm the observer. It landed, but I think it's truly taken me. When was that? That was probably about 13 years ago. And I've been

Speaker 1 practicing this since then, and only now, honestly, because I've been so injured that I've been able, I've I haven't been able to move much. So I've had it's like the universe rad, I think he's still working his magic. I've I've had to be so slow that I've just been in this almost meditative state, and I've been in so much pain that I realize that the only way that I can move through without constantly suffering and being like in a state of just turmoil is to just observe. And I've been in this observation seat now, and I gotta say, it's like it's been a really hard time,

Speaker 1 but the fact that I can sit and watch it and not get us sucked into, I call it the shit spiral. You said the Tibetans call it the suffering of suffering, I call it that loop. Like I had a it's just funny, it's not funny now, but the other night my finger has been inflamed this whole time. My ring finger on my right hand, which is actually I looked it up, it's associated with love and relationships. Ever since Rad passed, this finger's been inflamed. Um, and by the way, I've gone to every doctor east and west to figure out what's wrong with me. I want to

Speaker 1 say I've gotten every blood work, I've got like, and at this point, I'm very convinced that our mind, our body, our heart, it's all connected. There's energy, there's things I can't explain. But even though I haven't been able to walk, and I've been so sad, I sat the other night on my couch watching dancing with the stars, and the thought in my head that I was really facing was I will never dance again. And I was bawling. I was sitting on my couch crying, my eyes out, because my thought after two and a half months of not being able to walk, which by the way is

Speaker 1 kind of a thought that makes sense, right? I want to normalize it. I had a lot of evidence now and a lot of fear. That thought made me so sad that I just let myself, by the way, also cry. Because another thing I've learned is let the let the feeling be there. Like if I'm feeling really sad or scared, I used to push it aside and try to no, just feel okay. No, like I'm feeling things, but then I saw my finger and my finger was inflamed. And for some reason that set me off even more because I write and I paint, and my hand, this

Speaker 1 hand to me matters more than every part of my body. To me, losing a leg would be better than losing a hand. I mean, if I had to choose, I don't want to lose either one. But you know what I mean? When I saw the inflammation, my mind went into, oh my God, you're gonna lose this finger, and then you're gonna lose this hand, and then you'll never draw. And I spiraled so bad that I had a breakdown, probably top five of ever. I gotta say, I cried it out, I got it through, but I knew what was happening. I was able to be like, okay,

Speaker 1 there we go. You're believing this really crappy fear. And I came back to the moment. So I just share that because even though I'm very aware and I'm typically in that state of awareness, I still have moments where I see myself just getting dragged into that story in my head. In that moment, I was just sitting on my couch and I was with Mello. It was actually a nice night. I felt okay. I wasn't in pain beyond imagining that I would lose my arm and my whole life was gonna fall apart. So just for the listener, also, just think of how often you do that. How

Speaker 1 often I've done that, like just created tragedies, uh inventing horrible futures, a friend of mine used to joke. He'd be like, Oh, Svet, are you inventing horrible futures again? How's that going? But yet we do that. So, how do we do that, Les, Andy? Do you have any tips or tricks? I mean, you've been a healer for so many years. You told me that your father was a psychiatrist. So to me, you seem like someone also who's had way more experience and you have way more wisdom than I do. You've been around longer. So, like, what do you do with all this? Like, do you have

Speaker 1 any wise words from your own journey to share about like what could help people who are on this path realizing, like, oh okay.

Speaker 2 Well, um

Speaker 2 so one thing I've learned is that no one can control what comes up onto the screen, right? That so if we let go of trying to control that or shaming ourselves because something shitty just came up on the screen. Oh, I'm a bad person because this thought came in. Um instead, we if we realize that it's a thought or it's an emotion or it's a sensation, then we have the power to decide how to respond to it, and that takes a huge load off. It takes a huge load off. And the ultimate goal, I would put it this way: the ultimate goal would be can we

Speaker 2 be okay with not being okay? Or can we be not disturbed by being disturbed? Then we're always okay. Yeah, even if we're not okay, right? Including the ultimate, I mean, let's get to it. The ultimate not okay is losing our body, dying, right? Yeah, I mean that's our ultimate fear. And if we can be okay with that, then we can actually begin to live. And that doesn't mean that we do stupid things or that we don't act appropriately in certain situations. Like uh if you walk outside in cold, wet, you feel cold, wet on your butt, you could uh, you know, it's raining, right? But if

Speaker 2 you say, well, you know, the the weather report didn't say it would rain today, it's not really raining, it's just a thick fog. Um, it's probably gonna clear up any minute. Then because you're having all these thoughts on top of the sensation, you might not do the appropriate thing, which is to seek warmth and dryness. Um does that make sense?

Speaker 1 No, of course it makes sense.

Speaker 2 We have to be we have to acknowledge what's actually happening, which is I'm wet and cold. Then you could decide, because I heard your podcast about being wet and cold.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that you want to get in a cold plunge.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's okay because you've you've recognized what it is you're actually wanting, and it makes sense. Yeah, but you wouldn't want to be dropped in the North Atlantic uh without an ability to get out of that water at a certain amount of time, right? So you have to understand what is actually happening, actually happening, so that your the amount of wisdom that's inherently there, and when I say that, every cell in your body knows exactly what it needs and wants to survive, and your brain isn't involved. Every cell has its own brain somehow, and science hasn't figured it out. It's a it's a mystery. I

Speaker 2 mean, they're figuring out little pieces of it, yeah. But how every cell knows exactly how much oxygen, how much carbon dioxide, how much potassium, how much zinc, how much it doesn't, who knows how that happens, but it knows. And that's what's that's kid, that's that intelligence is within us.

Speaker 1 Sounds like magic to me, by the way, in some way. Well, like seriously, like that is it's fascinating, right? And I was smiling when you were talking because I remember the moment that I had this awareness years ago. I was in the ocean. I often get my downloads when I'm in water. I've I've sensed that as an interesting pattern. And I was I was on an incredible trip. I got flown out to lead a coaching group for a cool company. I was staying in a villa. It was like such a dream. It was incredible, and I was reflecting on how much crap happened to get me

Speaker 1 there. Like how much darkness I felt like I was swimming through. Honestly, it's like the metaphor is I felt like I was just swimming through shit. But then I would just find these diamonds in it. And I just kept kind of going, thinking, okay, well, I it's like, what are they? I I the metaphor also is like every tunnel ends in light. I'm like, I'm already in it. I just might as well keep trying. And here I am, and I'm in this ocean, and I got this. If you, if I'm I'm okay even when I'm not okay. Like I got to the point where I had

Speaker 1 to be okay feeling like crap. And I joke, I'm actually great at feeling crappy. I stopped trying to want to feel good all the time. And I gotta say, I'm so much more, I'm not even happier now. I'm just more peaceful, which is better. Like this chasing of feeling good was why I was miserable pretty much the whole time I was doing that. And I see so often people are like, no, no, no, I'm fine, but they're so obviously not fine. And I'm like, well, why don't you just admit that you're not okay? But I realized it's really hard for people. Like that step, for some

Speaker 1 reason, and I try to have compassion for it because I think our society is always promoting, like, you gotta have it together and you gotta be okay and you gotta be strong. And yet the mental health epidemic is insane and everyone is suffering. When I talk to people, it's like we're it's almost like we're not allowed to not be okay. And yet, yeah, we are. Like, that's okay. So, really, it's like I want to release the pressure. So, like for anyone listening out there, if you're not okay, that's okay. Like, even that feels so much nicer. Like when I'm freaking out now, I'm nice to myself.

Speaker 1 Literally, I see it. I used to beat myself up when I like when I was down, I had my Dharma teacher who saved my life. He was a friend now who I met in my first real dark depression where I couldn't get out of my bed. I didn't want to be in my body anymore. And I was a happiness researcher, so like that was very surprising. He literally said, Svet, imagine you're walking down the street and you see a person on the side of the road and they're they're crying and they're bleeding and they're in pain. Would you go over the and kick them? I said,

Speaker 1 No, of course not. He goes, of course not. Why are you kicking yourself when you're down? And something clicked, and I was like, wow, I really am. He's like, if you had a baby that was crying, would you scream at it? I was like, no. He's like, but why are you doing that? And honestly, that even that, I got it. That was 13 years ago as well. But only in this round of the fact that I think I've been in so much pain. There have been times in the middle of the night where I'm I have two canes because I can't walk and I'm in so

Speaker 1 much pain, and I'm almost falling over, and I'm barely moving, and I'm crying, and I'm alone. But as I'm walking through my room, I'm saying to myself, You're doing great. I love you. You're okay. Like I'm mother, I'm being nice. I'm like observing what's happening, and I'm just nicer when I'm not okay and I'm serious. I feel like that's almost the gift that I'm seeing is that I've developed that ability because I'm pretty sure the outside world isn't suddenly just going to become super easy to deal with and everything's gonna be perfect. So developing that like mental resilience is something I really am just so grateful

Speaker 1 for. And it sucks that it has to come through pain. But to me, it's really connected to also that subconscious rewiring. I feel like I really have somehow become kinder in my subconscious. Would you is that how it lands? I'm I'm trying to understand what's happened even with me, because I'm so grateful for that. It hasn't made my pain go away, but it's prevented my pain from spiraling out of control even worse than I think it would have in the past.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Um, well, there's so many things you're bringing up. Um

Speaker 2 I mean of we we, when I say we, all living things seek pleasure and avoid pain. I mean, it's how we we survive. And so, of course, if we're not feeling good, whether it's emotional, physical, chemical, there's a part of our mind, you I I'll just say a part of our mind that will want to correct that. And and we need that part, or else we wouldn't make it. We would know the difference between our hand on a hot stove and not, right? So there's nothing wrong with the part of our mind that's going to fight and reject not feeling good. But if we can see

Speaker 2 that part as well as a part, then we won't be ruled by it, and we won't be resisting what is actually happening most of the time. And and and it's that acceptance of what's actually happening right now that allows us, even if it's painful, even it's uncomfortable, um, if we can rest in the it's really faith. I I mean, let's face it. Yeah, it's faith that this moment as it is is exactly how it should be. Because it is. It is. And by the way, by the time we we realize what's happening in the moment, like that sound, yeah, by the time we actually register it,

Speaker 2 it's already happened, it's already in the past. There's absolutely nothing we could do about it. Um so it's this deep acceptance of what is happening right now, and that doesn't mean that we can't act to make something better.

Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Yes, that's I think the misconception. People are like, oh, just surrender and don't fight for what you want. No, no, no. I'm I am all about go after what you want. I'm a coach, like go after what you want. The the I'm a big fan of words, mantras. And I always say, when you fight with reality, you always lose. When you fight with it's like fighting the ocean. And once that registered, it's like literally, when you fight with it, you will never win. Okay, how about also? Have you heard the the faster you run, the bigger your shadow? Literally. Like, or what about what's the

Speaker 1 other one that I really love? Yeah, what we resist persists. Literally, it's just like stop running, face yourself. Usually I had a vision one time. I remember I was like, I'm a very visual person. I get these vision visions from time to time. I I don't actually remember if it was just a vision or a dream, but I was running into an alley and I was afraid or something was chasing me. And then I just stopped running and I turned around and I thought it was this big, scary monster-looking thing. And when I got closer to it in the dark, it was this little kid. It

Speaker 1 was just a little kid who was crying. And I mean, again, I've done enough, I feel like I'm like an unlicensed therapist at this point. When I saw that and I understood that we all just have a little kid who's afraid. It's like, oh, but we're so afraid and we're running away. So man, it's just so what's what's challenging for me is I I get these things, you know, I understand them theoretically. And now I'm definitely integrating them more than I used to, but I meet so many people, and sometimes I just want to like shake them and be like, come on, it's okay. Just feel

Speaker 1 what it is, but you that doesn't work. So I think that's the other thing I want to know, right? Like, that's kind of why I started this show. The idea of masterful listening for me really started with listening to yourself because I've known things my whole life from a very young age. And everything that I felt intuitively, I was right. Now, even I joke with my mom, I'm like, do you see why I quit 30 jobs? Mm-hmm. Makes more sense. But at the time when I was doing it, nobody, everyone said, you're crazy, but I had this knowing, this feeling inside that I was not meant

Speaker 1 to do certain work. I was meant to do this work that I'm doing. And I was right. Was it easy? No, I'm glad I didn't know what would be happening. I think had I known the path, I would have said, hell no. But if I had to do it again, knowing where I'd be now, I would, right? So it's like That's what the idea is. We I feel like people, if they really listened to their gut, to their body, to that inner knowing, I feel like people's lives would be better. So how to connect more to that, right? Because I feel like that's it. It's a

Speaker 1 muscle. Like I see intuition like a muscle that if you train and allow yourself to listen to that voice inside, listen to your body, there's so much to it, but it really is so simple, right? So I don't even know what I'm asking you. I guess I just want to know I want to know what you want to say right now, based on what I just shared.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I I know I know what you're asking. Well, I think I know what you're asking. Um

Speaker 2 you know, it's something where um there's a word in Hebrew called teshuva, which means to remember. To remember. And what happens is uh you could have a moment of clarity, a moment of connection. You're you're there, and then you lose it. And of course you're gonna lose it. That's the way we are. Um I I speak, I love metaphors. So um imagine a plane flying from San Francisco to pick your destination. Once the plane gets up in the air, the coordinates are set and the autopilot takes over. The plane is on course, and then of course, physics, nature takes over, and there's a little bit of

Speaker 2 wind turbulence, and the plane deviates a little bit, the autopilot notices and corrects. And this goes on constantly. I mean, it's pretty wild to think a plane could fly from point A to point B, be off course 90% of the time, and still get there. Magic. That's also magic. Okay. So, but the autopilot doesn't say, oh, you're a lousy plane. Why can't you fly straight? All the other planes seem to fly straight. What's wrong with you? None of that. It's just notice, correct. Notice, correct, notice, correct. The same if you're driving down a perfectly straight road. If you looked at your hands, they're constantly, you know,

Speaker 2 just slightly moving. You're not consciously doing it, you're unconsciously doing it. That because the road, if you lock the wheel in place, you you crash the car pretty quickly. So there's constant movement, constant getting knocked off course, constant. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong, but as soon as you could notice, you just go back. And so the practice, I call it the practice, is anytime you remember, you're there. And you could use something like the sensation of movement in your belly as a home base, as a go-to. So you don't always have to think, well, what do I do? What do I do? Where do I

Speaker 2 go? What do I no? Just go back to the breath. And when I say back to the breath, the sensation of movement, it's like listening to the waves at the beach. You don't have to create the waves, you don't have to do anything. The sound is already there, it's always there at the beach. And you're just listening, and there's something deeply relaxing about listening to the waves because I believe on a very deep level, we know absolutely that we have absolutely no control over the waves. So we completely let go and just allow the sound to be as it is. And if we could do that

Speaker 2 for our own experience, that would be pretty and again. We do it in short bursts. You could try to hold on to it for long periods, forget about it. And I see balloons.

Speaker 1 I know that's so funny. Balloons, but I was just gonna say, you know what it would be in.

Speaker 2 Does that mean you're we're celebrating what I just said?

Speaker 1 Yes, no, I swear that wasn't an accident because I just thought, and that was rad. I said that would be rad. That would be a rad life. When I think of it and I'm I'm bringing it, it's perfect because I've oh for me again, I just I feel hot right now. My whole body is like hot because I feel a lot of energy because this is very, this is like a powerful moment for me because there are no coincidences, I believe. And you're right. Like when we we cannot fight the ocean, and you know how I know that? Because I've tried and I almost died, right?

Speaker 1 I got caught in a riptide. What do they say? You gotta let it take you, right? All these metaphors. I loved your plane metaphor that landed with me so well, which is why I also said I love listening to you, because my metaphor about listening is also a plane. I say, imagine you're flying a plane and it's a good ride, right? It's great, there's no turbulence. But as you get to the airport, you can't land it. Does it matter that the ride was good? No, you got to land the plane. That's what listening is all about. Is what you're saying landing? Is there a runway? Are

Speaker 1 people hearing what you're saying? Are you hearing what's being said or are you hearing what you want to hear? Right? How often are we just not having the right runway for each other's planes to land? So that was my metaphor, but yours, it's so good. There's no judgment there on that. It's like, oh, you're autocorrecting. Imagine if people, instead of like, oh, I messed up again, are like, oh, boop, all right, autocorrect, auto-correct me, autocorrect. Wow. I will, I am becoming more like that. I like that. Language is powerful too. I'm being more mindful of what am I saying to myself? Because what's hearing it, that's

Speaker 1 subconscious, right? Like, isn't it true that our brains can't even tell the difference between what we visualize and what we see and what we say? Like they think it's all the truth, right? So, what are you saying to yourself all day? What are you listening to? Who are you listening to all the time? I spend time with fewer people now because I realized what I'm getting into my ears affects everything, right? Um and then I just wrote this down. I got excited and now I lost my thought. Oh, remembering Teshuba. Is that is that right? My I just thought of my really good friend. I have

Speaker 1 a favorite musician, Jason Mraz, and he goes, Why do we forget? Why do we forget? And I always say that, and he says, Because it feels good to remember. And I find that so true. I've tattooed these messages all over me, and I joke because I forget. I know this stuff. My company's called This Is It Enterprises. Why to remind myself that this is it, this is it. I've been saying that this is it, this moment. It's not like I don't know it, but I forget it. And the constant remembering is actually what masterful listening is all about, right? I always say, you get distracted, come

Speaker 1 back. Cool thing is with a podcast, you can rewind it in life. You can't always rewind your life. That's why it's like, can you just be more in your life? Just a little bit more in your life, right? Um, because that's all, I mean, it's just gonna up, like you said, now it's gone. So I feel like it's getting profound, and I'm looking at the time and I'm wondering if we're if the arc is closing. But before we close, I feel like we covered so many interesting things. What haven't we said? What haven't you shared that you feel like might be uh a helpful, useful, interesting

Speaker 1 thing that you'd want to share?

Speaker 2 Um because we're talking about hypnosis and I really want to demystify it. Um in the context of hypnotherapy, it's no different than guided meditation. Because when when you come in with an ide with a goal, uh so for what I do, I I change help people change habits, right? So uh if the goal is stated clearly, now with smoking, it's pretty clear, you're either smoking or you're not, yeah, then that's the focus. Every suggestion will be you're never gonna smoke again, not even one cigarette. Not even once. That's very clear. Um so with guided meditation, you are getting into a relaxed state. We call it trance.

Speaker 2 We go into trance all the time. We're just acting unconsciously all the time. Like again, driving on I-5 from the Bay Area to LA or vice versa. You're in a trance. Um, if if all of a sudden you see a sea of red lights in front of you, your right foot would hit the brake, you come out of the trance.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 You go you go into trance when you're feeling safe, feeling relaxed, and you know what to expect.

Speaker 1 Is it like flow? Is it like the state of flow or is it different? Yes. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 Again, we'll use the movie example. Uh, when you're watching a good movie, you go into trance. You forget you're watching a movie, you let yourself get involved in the story because that's why you're there. You want to be entertained.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But if something were to happen that you weren't expecting, then you come out of the trance. So, for instance, if a friend says, Hey, you got to see this movie, it's the funniest movie, it's the best comedy, you gotta see it, and then you say, Okay, and you go to the movie and you start to watch, and about 10 minutes in, you realize, wait a minute, this is this is not a comedy, this is a psycho thriller. Then you come out of the trance, it's not what you were expecting. Maybe you're in the wrong theater. I'd leave.

Speaker 1 Bye-bye. Yeah, bye-bye.

Speaker 2 Right. So um you can't be made to do things you don't want to do. You you state your purpose and you allow yourself. It's like you come, if I'm the person, you say to me, hey, talk to my unconscious mind. My unconscious mind is not listening on this particular topic. And I give you permission to talk to my unconscious mind so that we don't keep doing this harmful behavior. And I say, Great, with your permission, meaning the permission of your flashlight, your conscious mind, let's talk to that unconscious mind. Because we know the unconscious mind, when it sees the truth, it'll flip.

Speaker 1 Yeah, flipping that switch on the on the dime.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I can, I mean, I'm just so attesting to that. I I I will I will learn what you do. I don't know who's gonna teach me, but I'm fascinated because truly, I really want to thank you. You are you were that puzzle piece that I found because I trust life. I do. I I've said to someone recently, I'm like, it's crazy how much pain I've been in and how much uncertainty I have right now, and how I have more faith than ever. It's kind of wild. And I feel like when Rad left, he infused me with so much wisdom. I always said he was my

Speaker 1 stoic, wiser, older male teacher. And then I find you, Raider, but Radder to me. You connected me with the incredible chiropractor I'm about to go see, also who has Rad in his name. There are no coincidences. I feel like Rad is weirdly still taking care of me, and I'm discovering these incredible things that again are yes, it's about smoking, but it's so much more than that. I'm kind of now thinking, what else, if I could get that subconscious to see, could happen in my life? What could happen to my other habits? Um, what could happen to my dreams? What could happen to my relationships, right? Because

Speaker 1 it's all connected and it's amazing. So um I wanted to say that too. But anything else about I just I get so excited listening to you that I always want to say things, and then I sometimes pivot and take really awesome detours. And then now I'm back. So anything else though? Because there I had all these questions I wanted to ask you, and I just love what we ended up talking about. But do you feel like you demystified hypnosis, or is there more that you want to say for people who just might not know it? You know, they might have seen a show or thought, oh,

Speaker 1 hypnosis as they go on stage and somebody quacks like a duck.

Speaker 2 Like Yeah, since you mentioned it, uh I'll explain how a show works, give away all the secrets.

Speaker 1 Awesome.

Speaker 2 Okay, so anyone, uh everyone has some kind of idea what happens at a hypnosis show. Like people get up on stage and do silly things, right? So if you find yourself at a hypnosis show, um, again, you're sitting in the audience, everyone has an idea. Here we are at a hypnosis show. People are gonna get up on stage and do silly things. The first thing that has to happen is the hematist has to ask for a volunteer. So if I I raise my hand, I'm saying to myself and everyone else, I'm willing to be a fool for today, I'm willing to go up on stage and

Speaker 2 do silly things, right? Let's say 20 people raise their hands, 20 people are going to be invited up on stage, and the hypnotist is going to test them out a little bit and ask them to do something that's not a big deal. Like, okay, everyone, walk like a duck. So you'll get 20 people walking like ducks on stage. Maybe five of them will start quacking like ducks, and then the hypnotist is gonna say, Great, let's keep these five, and let's have a hand for the other 15. They're gonna sit down now because why? Those five, not only did they take the suggestion to walk like ducks,

Speaker 2 they became ducks. They were really into it.

Speaker 1 They took it farther, yeah.

Speaker 2 They took it farther. So, what's really going on? Um, well, one thing is everyone is awake and conscious and they know what's happening. And those people who are on stage who got took the suggestion to walk like ducks, and the ones who especially became ducks, they accepted that suggestion. They went along with it. Now, what's the other thing? Expectation. So, again, everyone in the audience has some idea of what's going to happen. So the people who raise their hands, they are accepting that they are going to go up on stage and do some silly things. The hypnotist will never push the edge, the hypnotist will never

Speaker 2 push the boundary and ask those people to do something they probably won't want to do, and they probably won't do it. Like, okay, everyone, take off all your clothes and run around naked on stage. You might get 20 people saying, I'm not doing that. Now, maybe one person might do it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Right? But that would be a lousy show. So the hematist is going to stay within the realm of what people are expecting when they raise their hand, and and then you'll have a good show because all these suggestions will most likely be accepted. So what so for so for a smoker, yeah, it's it's not entertainment, but there's similarities. Like I put out to the world I help people with habits. Yeah. So smoker finds me, however, you found me, and then you call, and then I ask you why do you want to quit? And you tell me why. And then you show up, you pay money, you're

Speaker 2 saying, yeah, I want to be a duck on stage. Yeah, I want to quit, I want to quit smoking.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna be the best duck. Right. Um, but you know what? And again, what what I love about what you're saying, because again, I just went through this, I just did it. I'm not like interviewing someone because it's interesting. I just did this. And what I loved about you was I spoke to you on a Thursday and I told you, I was like, I want to do it. And I knew that because I was ready, I would work. I believed it. I couldn't explain it. I was like, I am ready. You even told me, I don't care if you walk in there smoking, you got to

Speaker 1 walk in there knowing you're ready. And I said, Can we do it tomorrow? And you go, no, you're not ready yet. You're gonna take a few weeks and you're gonna actually get ready. And I thought, oh, I love that because you were right. And I'm so glad I did that. And this is where I want to like really bring it together because I wouldn't have been ready. I wouldn't have been ready had I come in that next day. I felt pressure because I was getting mellow. I felt overwhelmed. But the truth is, I wanted to say goodbye to those cigarettes because they had been a friend

Speaker 1 to me. Whether I was hurting myself or not, to me, in my mind at that time, those cigarettes were a friend, a supporter. They gave me all those things that felt real. And the fact that I had a few weeks to like I enjoyed every one. I said a prayer, I thought about our good times. I almost like consciously uncoupled with them like I would a person, so that when I did walk into your office, I was really done. Like I put that last few, I put it in the there was like an ashtray right outside your office, and I put the whole pack in. And

Speaker 1 then I was like, I wonder how I'm gonna feel when I walk out, when I still see that pack. And I just remember walking by and like smiling, and I was like, I don't want it. I hope someone else enjoys that. So I really liked that too. The idea of really being sure you're ready to do something. Like hypnosis isn't, I think that's the misconception is oh, someone can just hypnotize you to do this crazy thing you don't want to do. No, I don't actually think that that's how it's effective. I think though, if someone, like if someone listening to this is like, you know what?

Speaker 1 I've been vaping and I know it's not great for me, or smoking, or drinking alcohol, or which I know it's different with other substances, but the idea is how would they know if they are ready to reach out to someone like you and actually like take a step towards rewiring that subconscious story, right?

Speaker 2 Well, let's have them call 415 488-0201, 415-488-0201, and we'll talk. And yeah, if it makes sense, we'll do it. If it doesn't make sense, or if you're not quite ready, and there are things that you could do to get ready, then that's the best approach. But um let's let's say we should do a part two sometime in the future because there's clearly a whole lot to talk about that we're not gonna fit in here. So yes, I'm really grateful that you had me on, and uh I hope um there's some benefit that comes from it.

Speaker 1 I think so. I think when I left your office, I'm like, we're gonna talk again. We we gotta, I just liked you as a person. Again, thank you so much. You have now become part of my life journey. I told you the story of this, I'm all about stories. I'm like, if this works, when this works, I would have had another real example of magic. And I'm so grateful. I feel my body is thankful that through this time, as I'm going through the fact that I I've just, yeah, the version of me now who's not smoking, it makes more sense. And I'm not even judging it.

Speaker 1 Like I'm so grateful for all that time. And here we are. So yeah, I'll list all of your info for anyone again, because you do work remotely. And I am the best reference. And I know it's only been a month, but I can tell you wholeheartedly, I am a non-smoker. I'll never smoke again. Not because I'm forcing myself to, I have no desire to. I got it. And I will never judge anyone either, and I will never convince anyone to do anything. I really didn't like when people do that to me. So, listener, as we wrap, that's really what I want to leave. As we're coming

Speaker 1 to a close, first of all, really thank you so much. I really appreciate your help of me, but also taking the time to share your wisdom. And yes, you got to come back in a year and maybe in 10, right? Because I want to see how this goes. You told me that nine out of 10 people that you do a smoking hypnosis with instantly stop and never smoke again. The one out of 10 you said that might, you'll do a session again, meaning for the fee, which I was like, wow, 90% success rate. I've never heard anything that uh solid, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Um and listener, your homework, right? Because every episode you're gonna have some homework. First, consider what it would look like to believe and look for some evidence of magic in life. We started the word magic came up a few times in this episode, and I really like that word. I find magic often because I feel like I keep looking for it. This is an experience for me of magic, at least I'm calling it that. But more, I invite you to start really paying attention to your thoughts a little bit more, to your sensations in your body a little bit more, to the things that maybe you've

Speaker 1 been pulled towards or pulled away from a little bit more. Just pay a bit more attention to that. Start listening to your inner voice a little bit more. It really is so incredible when we start listening to that inner voice more. Uh yeah, I want that for you. I want that for me. I want that more for all of us, you know. And the other homework is reach out to Andy if hypnosis is something that you've been curious about. And I gotta say also that Andrew Rader is rad. Rad stands for really awesome detour. And honestly, the way I felt about smoking is I thought I

Speaker 1 don't want to be a heavy smoker my whole life, but I want to be able to have a cigarette here and there. I want to still enjoy this thing throughout my life. And honestly, that has shifted so radically because of 33 minutes, because a switch was just flipped in my brain in that vast dark ocean of the subconscious. And that is so incredible to me, and that shows me that that is possible for other things in my life, and that is possible for you, if that is interesting to you and is as exciting as it is for me. So it's time to say goodbye and wrap

Speaker 1 this episode. Andy actually got disconnected from me at the very end, and we got back on the phone and thought, do we jump back on and try to connect again? Because it was actually the second time in the show that happened. And yes, I'm a producer and cut it together. So I hope it all sounds great. And we thought, no, you know what? Let's go be present in our life. Uh, that was good, and so I'm thanking you all on Andy's behalf for listening today. And we both hope that you got a lot out of this conversation. I know we both did. So, with that, I'll

Speaker 1 see you next time.